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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
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Replying to: seniorjose (Jun 18, 2006 8:50 am) 
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Replying to: seniorjose (Jun 18, 2006 8:24 am) A handful of irrational opponents? Huh? Just skimming off some stuff I've read lately, corn ethanol opponents include a wide range of thinkers such as Environmental Defense, the Heritage Institute, the Sierra Club, The San Diego Union-Tribune, Michael Pollan, the Washington Times, the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Iowa Environmental Council, CorpWatch, the Wichita Falls Times Record, the Detroit News, the Cato Institute, Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment, Charlie Munger (Berkshire Hathaway), Christian Science Monitor, Pennsylvania Citizens for a Quality Environment, John Deutch (director of energy research in Carter administration), Los Angeles Times, Toronto Star, Joel Schwartz (American Enterprise Institute), Environmental Working Group, American Institute of Biological Sciences, Taxpayers League of Minnesota, author Richard Manning, author George Pyle (Salt Lake Tribune), etc., etc., etc. Darn! And I thought it was just a handful ... Lobbyists collecting millions from the obstructionists can block oil drilling, refineries, wind farms, and nuclear energy, but they CANNOT block Ethanol and, to some extent, Biodiesel raw supply from our American farmers or building Ethanol/Biodiesel manufacturing plant production...our American farmers hold the trump card on that one. Don't forget the corn lobbyists, also collecting millions. Some of them work for ADM, to be sure. Our American farmers hold the trump card? I'm not sure about that one, either. The trump card is being held by the aforementioned corn lobby, ADM and other big agribusiness. Barely 50 percent of ethanol plants are owned by the farmers themselves, and the percentage diminishes all the time.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 17, 2006 8:31 pm) Farout
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Replying to: fireball1 (Jun 18, 2006 12:14 pm) Makes me wonder why SUGAR BEETS haven't become a target yet, especially since the ethanol yield from them is greater than that of corn. JOHN
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Replying to: farout (Jun 18, 2006 12:51 pm) I believe that since Detroit is so money hungry to make the quickest buck today by any means is dropping the diesel liberty simply because they make more % of porfit from the newer cherokee. Yea I know they would probally sell all they can make of both models but somehow, that logit would never ever fit inot Detroit's logic. As has been clearly demostrated by Detroit's last 30 years.
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Replying to: gem069 (Jun 18, 2006 1:55 pm) That doesn't explain why Toyota, Honda and BMW don't sell these vehicles at all here, while those that do such as VW sell very few and do so little to promote them. Face it -- the smart, profitable automakers aren't expecting diesels to take over the US car market. The smart money is not betting on this technology taking off here. |
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Replying to: seniorjose (Jun 18, 2006 8:24 am) NY is a CARB wannabe state. You say they allow the sale of diesel cars. That is interesting. You mind posting the dealers name. I have a list of folks that would love to buy a VW TDI and cannot find one. Ethanol and E85 are being rolled out big time So what do you consider big time? My understanding is we only have enough corn land to supply a maximum of 4% of our fuel needs. That is not enough to take care of the mandate using ethanol as an additive. If it is going to make a dent in our fossil fuel usage it will take more than emotional spin to get the job done. As for ADM producing biodiesel. At least it is a fuel with some useful attributes. If you read the energy bill you would know they threw in some money for biodiesel as well as ethanol. So ADM wants to get their lobbyist moneys worth on all fronts.
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Replying to: john1701a (Jun 18, 2006 12:56 pm) I asked that a while back of our resident Ethanol salesman. I guess he is not allowed to talk about anything that takes away from the CORN industry. I believe he is a paid plant from the ADM lobby group. He keeps pasting only the stuff they pre-approve of. Such as misinformation about diesel cars and ethanol availability.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 18, 2006 3:03 pm) Let's take a look at that: -According to this 2005 article, US diesel consumption is about 55 billion gallons per year. Of that amount, 30 million gallons of it is biodiesel, meaning that about 0.05% of total diesel consumption in the US is of the bio variety. -Based upon a figure of roughly 320 million gallons per day, US consumption of gasoline is about 117 billion gallons per year. US ethanol consumption equals about 2.5% of that figure, meaning that ethanol production is roughly 2.95 billion gallons per year. Let's compare these two results. Using these figures, current ethanol production exceeds that of biodiesel by about 98 times. (Yes, that's 9800%). Now, note this quote from the article: If biodiesel replaced as few as 133 million gallons of petroleum diesel, supporters say, current surpluses of soybeans and soy oil would disappear. Do the math on this: This is saying that if biodiesel production increased to an amount equivalent to one-quarter of one percent of current demand (133 million/ 55 billion = 0.25%), it would eliminate the current soy surplus. Those are pretty stark numbers: that means that 99.75% of diesel demand would need to be met by petroleum products, based upon current demand and crop availability. Let's face it -- biodiesel faces very similar constraints as does corn-based ethanol in the US AND is even further behind the curve. Neither product is in a position to radically transform US consumption without significant increases in agricultural production, more efficient sources of biomass, and/or more efficient refining processes. The numbers speak for themselves.
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| Let's stop making this about each other please. | |
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