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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 09, 2006 4:01 pm) |
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Replying to: seniorjose (Jun 09, 2006 1:22 pm) |
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 09, 2006 10:37 am)
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Replying to: fireball1 (Jun 09, 2006 4:33 pm)
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Jun 09, 2006 5:24 pm) None of this is a defense of ethanol. All the talk (from pro-ethanol people) is how it "burns cleaner," etc. Greater attention should be paid to reducing or eliminating the environmental degradation that occurs earlier in the entire process. If that isn't done, ethanol has no future. I believe conservation, deterrents to consumption and public transportation are underrated in our fuel discussion. Certainly, we need to develop a fuel, or fuels, for the future, but we can ease our pain right now -- few people have the courage to talk about it, though. Meanwhile, here's a fresh look at the pollution that ethanol plants create: http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13646
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 09, 2006 4:56 am) That may be the case right now because we still grow a huge surplus of corn that gets exported. If ethanol production triples by 2015, which is projected, there will no longer be a surplus without expanding corn production. Then something's gotta give here. If government mandates so much ethanol production but farmers, even with subsidies, lose big time because of corn inputs ...
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Replying to: fireball1 (Jun 09, 2006 8:32 pm) Brazil went through this in the 1980s. They built many cars to run on ethanol. Two things happened. Sugar became more valuable than ethanol and oil got cheap again. Ethanol plants closed and many people were stuck with cars and no ethanol. I realize the cars here are flex fuel so that won't happen. We also shut down ethanol plants built in the 1980s when MTBE became the designer additive of choice. This whole thing is reminiscent of the 1930s when the rage was to build dams for cheap electricity. Now some have been demolished and others are considered bad environmentally. If the Energy bill had made provision to look into economical ways to produce ethanol. I would say good decision. That would mean self sustaining, not subsidized into perpetuity. So far all it has done is raise the price of gas for most of the USA. |
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Replying to: fireball1 (Jun 09, 2006 8:18 pm) The problem is that almost anything we can make ethanol is not good. Soybeans provide less ethanol per acre than corn, Sugar is a very water intensive crop that cannot be grown in most of the US, you can't make ethanol out of switchgrass at this point and maybe 10 years or more before thats feesable. Very few things appear feesable. on a very large scale program for ethanol. I just don't know whats good for the huge large scale use to provide the ethanol for us to wean us off of forgein oil. |
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"Based on the vast majority of research and analysis, the department believes that the energy delivered by ethanol is greater than the fossil energy put into its production." I would think they would have scientific proof, and know before they start throwing out mandates that we all have to live with and pay for. Prof. Pimentel defended his work in an interview. "I don't see how you could or should eliminate the labor of the farmer," he said. "He eats, sleeps, uses the highways, depends on the police force, fireman, and so forth." How many are illegal working to produce the corn. Maybe that is why the pro ethanol faction do not want scientific studies on the true cost of ethanol. It can be disorienting to discover that reputable researchers can so seriously disagree on a single number. In an article last month, the Toledo Blade counted studies, as if that might help settle things. The newspaper noted Prof. Pimentel's work, and added, "Five other researchers have done studies and agree. Thirteen other studies, including one paid for by the Department of Energy, show the opposite." WSJ ethanol good or bad?
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the elder jose said E10 is cheaper than "E0" unleaded. i suspect it's only true in/near the corn-husker states, not on east or west coast. also i think it's pretty clear ethanol is part of the solution. biodiesel too. bring it!
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