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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
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Replying to: seniorjose (Jun 08, 2006 8:41 am) Nope actually the fact that I don't have to use E85 makes my case stronger. Why use a fuel that gives me fewer miles for my dollar that I have to search for? Just use regular gas, its cheaper and easier to get. Sorry that your 3 mile too far jaunt will keep you in the clutches of Fidel and the boys!...cheers! The alternative would be to be in the clutches of ADM? |
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Jun 08, 2006 8:46 am) Then to clarify, **I** am talking about the political aspects, because IMO, that should be the main determinant of fuel policies going forward. Using today's pump prices as the sole measure of what needs to be done tomorrow is short-sighted and will continue to drain the US treasury of significant resources. The reason that oil is as costly as it is today is largely because of the lack of planning and a coherent, long-term energy policy that has made us so utterly dependent upon it. We are potentially on the verge of the return of stagflation because of the importance of oil to the world economy, and this dependency is largely self-inflicted. The free market alone won't solve this problem. Then again, oil long ago stopped being a free market solution, being that the US has spent billions of dollars on a foreign policy meant to ensure its supply. In effect, the US has already been subsidizing oil, we just haven't seen this at the pump. As for alternative fuels, assuming available distribution, if taxes for conventional gasoline was increased while the cost of the alternatives were reduced, whether through subsidies, lower taxes, etc., then that price shift would influence consumer behavior. Anything that does not include the continuation of the status quo is going to require policy changes, whatever those happen to be.
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Replying to: seniorjose (Jun 08, 2006 7:59 am) I did not see any posts that claimed anyone was anti-American. I think many politicians are ignorant of the facts about ethanol. Or maybe blinded by huge campaign contributions in an election year. Ethanol has become a political issue. I don't see any reason to think it has anything to do with being anti-American. As far as the Sierra club they are very pro alternative fuels. They look at the big picture. Not just what it means to one entity. They would like to see ethanol from biomass. Their biggest concern is the wasteful farming practices to get a few extra bushels of corn per acre. What is done on an acre of land in Iowa can have bad environmental effect a thousand miles away. What is good for Iowa or MN is not necessarily good for Mississippi. |
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Replying to: socala4 (Jun 08, 2006 8:42 am) |
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Replying to: socala4 (Jun 08, 2006 8:58 am) To clarify I am not and you are trying to turn what I am talking about into the political aspects and I would appreciate you not trying to highjack what I am saying. Again the political ramifications is NOT germane to the microeconomic realities of E85 The reason that oil is as costly as it is today is largely because of the lack of planning and a coherent, long-term energy policy that has made us so utterly dependent upon it. And a poorly planned incoherent embracing of E85 isn't going to help. The free market alone won't solve this problem. If the free market were allowed to work it would provide a workable solution. But then the free market is hindered by government interference. More government interference is not the answer. I am not advocating no government interference just limited well thought out government activity (yeah I know thats a pipe dream).
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Jun 08, 2006 9:55 am) What I am doing here is underlining the point that a position based strictly upon short-term pricing is short-sighted, and disregards the significant hidden subsidy needed to ensure oil supplies. If the question is strictly a matter of whether the free market will, by itself, result in the widespread adoption of E85, then I think that it is clear that the answer is "no." But this discussion has largely become a debate about what should be done, rather than what is happening at the moment, and to that, I say that a broader vision is required. As I noted, oil is not truly a free market solution because of the significant costs of maintaining governmental policies that fight to ensure its supply, so any course of action will require government involvement/ interference/ etc. As a nation, we cannot afford to ignore one uniquely difficult aspect of oil supplies -- much of it happens to be concentrated in dictatorships that are not especially stable or friendly to the US. This comes at a great price which goes well beyond the pump price, and should be addressed lest we end up back in a repeat of the 70's fuel crisis or something worse.
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Replying to: socala4 (Jun 08, 2006 10:04 am) Again you are trying to interject something that is not part of my original posting and I will not go down that road. If the question is strictly a matter of whether the free market will, by itself, result in the widespread adoption of E85, then I think that it is clear that the answer is "no." And there is a reason why that answer is "no" it is because it is not an economically viable solution. Forcing a solution that isn't economically viable is not going to work in the long run. |
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Jun 08, 2006 5:22 am) CA caused all VW auto and Jeep diesels to be discontinued in 2007...! Seems to be a shortsighted legislature and lobbying effort by the Sierra club.
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Jun 08, 2006 8:46 am) |
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