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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
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Replying to: jae5 (Mar 30, 2006 10:16 am) |
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 28, 2006 6:13 pm) I'm glad that they think that ethanol cannot be moved by pipeline. That's all I'll say about it. In addition, the "markets" have already adsorbed the anti-oxygenate additive problem...twice. Boiler
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Replying to: boilermaker2 (Mar 30, 2006 3:11 pm) But EIA, in a report last month warning of shortages, said that "new (ethanol) facilities will not start soon enough to meet 2006 demand." That, EIA head Guy Caruso told the committee, "could cause temporary supply dislocations and may cause price volatility. "Ethanol mainly is made in the Midwest. But demand should be heaviest in the Northeast and Texas because of special clean-air fuel requirements there. Shipping alcohol costs more and takes longer because ethanol attaches to any moisture present and could contaminate petroleum pipelines — the cheap, fast way to ship What happens if we buy FFV and no E85? It is back to burning nasty old inefficient gasoline. No thanks I will buy a diesel vehicle and wait for biodiesel. |
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I think ethanol will catch on but only as a short term solution until hydrogen power vehicles kicks in.  
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We conclude that the NEV [net energy value] of corn ethanol is positive when fertilizers are produced by modern processing plants, corn is converted in modern ethanol facilities, farmers achieve normal corn yields, and energy credits are allocated to coproducts. Our NEV estimate of 16,193 Btu/gal can be considered conservative, since it was derived using the replacement method for valuing coproducts, and it does not include energy credits for plants that sell carbon dioxide. Corn ethanol is energy efficient, as indicated by an energy ratio of 1.24, that is, for every Btu dedicated to producing ethanol, there is a 24-percent energy gain. Moreover, producing ethanol from domestic corn stocks achieves a net gain in a more desirable form of energy. Ethanol production utilizes abundant domestic energy supplies of coal and natural gas to convert corn into a premium liquid fuel that can replace petroleum imports by a factor of 7 to 1. Ethanol NEV
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 31, 2006 8:29 am) Ethanol from Cellulose (e.g. switchgrass or corn stover) The energy balance from corn, then, is slightly positive. However, ethanol can also be derived from another source, namely, cellulosic feedstocks such as corn stover or switchgrass. In this case, the energy balance is much improved, as shown in Table 1 of this paper by McLaughlin and Walsh. Their data show that while the energy gain from corn grain is 21%, the energy gain from converting switchgrass to ethanol is 343%! The downside, of course, is that conversion technologies are not ready for primetime yet, as shown in the the USDA-DOE study mentioned above--the cost per gallon of ethanol from cellulose fermentation is about $1.50. The main worry here is that corn stover will be promoted as the cellulose source, rather than perennial grasses, and that's a big concern. Growing corn is already an environmental problem, but removing all stover (analgous to harvesting corn silage--but that's another topic!) will really leave the land open to wind and water erosion. All this adds up to the fact that using perennail grass crops, such as switchgrass, makes environment sense. More work on conversion technologies is needed, but when it is available, it will mark a substantial advance over the current corn ethanol industry. |
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Replying to: marmil1 (Mar 29, 2006 8:07 pm)
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Mar 30, 2006 9:43 am) An electric car of average size can go approximately 3 miles per kilowatt-hour. In this country the typical price for electricity is around 9 cents per kilowatt hour. That comes out to 3 cents a mile. There's no gas, biodiesel, ethanol, etc. ICE solution that will approach that. The obstacles are finding a method of storing enough electricity to provide reasonable driving distances and the ability to re-charge quickly. While its impossible to schedule technological advances my guess is that these problems will be overcome a lot sooner than the end of the century. When this happens people that generate their own electricity through solar, wind, or whatever will no longer be dependant on an industry to provide the energy to power their vehicle. I hope to live to see this happen because the shake-up in the status quo will be amazing and gratifying.
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Replying to: gashauler (Mar 31, 2006 10:09 am)
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