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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 07, 2006 3:34 am) |
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Replying to: seniorjose (Jun 06, 2006 10:56 am) While it is available now its not such a great option. Its more expensive to use and extremely land intensive to produce any great quantities of. Not to mention other issues with ethanol. Just don't put all your eggs in the E85 basket, its not as strong as it looks. South America, Venezuela and Bolivia, have openly espoused their hatred of the USA getting their oil Yeah but my money is on them loving those Yankee Greenbacks. |
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Shell Oil announced today that they will be producing Ethanol from waste material within two years -- BLOOMBERG TV
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I was interested to watch on TV the other night the installation of the large hydrogen tanks in autos. These hydrogen tanks took up all of the trunk space. The rear seats had to be temporarily removed and a mechanical arm and winch were used to stuff the trunk with the Hydrogen tank and associated hardware. All Hydrogen autos are on a short mileage tether just like the Electric cars. We are a tremendously long way from ever having Hydrogen as a viable fuel source just as Electric cars have been interesting but only in an confined urban setting. In the 60s we had propane powered taxicabs in San Fransisco -- and we know how far that technology took us. Hydrogen powered autos may be a technology of the future, but it is a long term solution that will take decades to implement and many billions of dollars for infrastructure even to support going outside of an urban area. Hydrogen researchers are now lookng at creating some sort of jell that would fill a storage tank in an auto to smother the explosive Hydrogen product or render it inert in case of an accident. Solutions will come. However, the point I am making is that we have viable solutions NOW with Ethanol and Biodiesel running in autos that currently come off the production line.
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What is the range of a flexible fuel ethanol vehicle? Ethanol has less energy content than gasoline. However, E85 also has a much higher octane (ranging from 100 to 105) than gasoline. FFVs are not optimized to E85, so they experience a 5% to 15% drop in fuel economy. This will vary based on temperature and driving conditions. For comparison purposes, aggressive driving habits can result in a 20% loss and low tire pressure can reduce mileage by 6%. Research indicates Ford FFVs experience a 5% horsepower gain on E85. The range of any particular vehicle is dependent on the size of the fuel tank and driving habits. Current Ford Taurus FFVs have an 18-gallon fuel tank and will normally travel 350 miles between refuelings.
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Replying to: seniorjose (Jun 07, 2006 5:16 am) What happens in two years when oil is back at $30 per barrel? They said it would never go below $40 per barrel in the early 1980s. It was as low as $9 per barrel in 1998. The Gulf of Mexico is virtually untapped. With Cuba wanting to tap that resource off the coast of Florida, how long before we start poking holes in the floor of the gulf? The only thing that Ethanol has going for it NOW is the mandated additive. That is E10 maximum. Most car manufacturers will void your warranty if you use anything higher than 10% ethanol. The FFVs are a joke as there are so few places in the USA you can buy E85. Less than 1% of FFV owners actually use E85. One station for close to 45 million people on the West coast. Your wait in line may be a long one. Ethanol is not a realistic alternative to fossil fuel. It is purely a feather to put in the hats of useless politicians. |
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What are the benefits of E85?Government tests have shown that E85 vehicles reduce harmful hydrocarbon and benzene emissions when compared to vehicles running on gasoline. E85 can also reduce carbon dioxide (CO2), a harmful greenhouse gas and a major contributor to global warming. Although CO2 is released during ethanol production and combustion, it is recaptured as a nutrient to the crops that are used in its production. Unlike fossil fuel combustion, which unlocks carbon that has been stored for millions of years, use of ethanol results in low increases to the carbon cycle. What happens when E85 is not available?The FFV system allows the driver to use any combination of gasoline or ethanol -- from 100% unleaded gasoline to 85% ethanol. A driver can therefore use unleaded gasoline if ethanol is not available. What are the differences in an FFV compared to a regular gasoline-only model? Are different parts used? There is only one major additional part that is included on an FFV, the fuel sensor that detects the ethanol/gasoline ratio. A number of other parts on the FFV’s fuel delivery system are modified so that they are ethanol compatible. The fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel injectors, computer system, anti-siphon device, and dashboard gauges have been modified slightly. Alcohols are corrosive. Therefore, any part that comes in contact with the fuel has been upgraded to be tolerant to alcohol. Normally, these parts include a stainless steel fuel tank and Teflon lined fuel hoses. Does an FFV cost more than a gasoline-only model?When manufacturers offer a flexible fuel engine as an option in their vehicles, there is no additional cost. In model year 1998, manufacturers began making flexible fuel engines standard equipment on certain makes and models. Therefore, with a specific model you can only get an E85 flexible fuel engine; no gasoline-only engines are available, therefore no additional cost is incurred. For a list of FFVs, click here. Are repairs and maintenance costs for FFVs any different than they are for gasoline?No, the costs are roughly the same as regular auto repairs and maintenance. An FFV does run cleaner and, therefore, some maintenance costs may actually be reduced in the long run. What is the octane rating of E85 compared to gasoline?Regular unleaded gasoline has an octane rating of 87; E85 has an octane rating ranging from 100-105 that provides for superior engine performance. Ford FFVs produce a 5% horsepower gain when using E85. Is E85 more toxic or dangerous than gasoline?No. 100% ethanol can be and is ingested by human beings. The fuel ethanol must be "denatured" with gasoline or a bitter agent to prevent ingestion. Also, ethanol does not contain the harmful carcinogens and toxins found in gasoline. If E85 is spilled on the ground, can it contaminate ground water?Ethanol is water soluble, non-toxic and biodegradable. E85 contains roughly 80% less of the potential contaminates found in gasoline. Will I hurt a gasoline-only vehicle if I use E85?Yes. Longer-term use of E85 in gasoline-only vehicles may cause damage because of the incompatibility of the alcohol fuel with the parts in gasoline-only engines. Performance and emissions will also be compromised. What is the price of E85?As is the case with all forms of fuel, the larger the number of outlets, typically, the more competitively priced is the fuel. E85 is priced to be competitive with 87-octane gasoline.
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Replying to: seniorjose (Jun 07, 2006 6:09 am) If they were optimized as you suggest. Would they even run on regular unleaded? You would probably have to use Av gas to get 100-105 octane at 6 bucks a gallon. No one has shown that you can get equal mileage with E85, that you can get with regular unleaded. It defies the laws of science. You can wish all you want that a gas car of equal size and displacement will compete mileage wise with a diesel engine. It ain't gonna happen in our lifetime. Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. |
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Replying to: seniorjose (Jun 07, 2006 5:47 am) http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/biodiesel.html
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Replying to: bhw77 (Jun 07, 2006 6:30 am) Companies I will support when possible: Earth Friendly Biodiesel |
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