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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
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Replying to: fireball1 (May 26, 2006 8:38 pm) Gee...short supply of water...not here in the midwest! Now towns like Tucson, or Phoenix using ground water that can never be replaced, will be ghost towns in not too many decades. If Nebraska refused to get on the Ethanol bandwagon so what? Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Wisconsin, etc have worked hard to try to build viable NOW solutions...ostrich states will always be with us. Coal does not pollute with scrubbers in the stacks and the use of hard coal, a technology that is some 40-50 years old - not even a concern. There are many, many coal fired power plants today throughout America. If your E10 is selling higher than regular 89 octane gasoline, then Nebraska has been left far behind. Corn fuels our and the world's agriculture foodstuffs. There are of course, terribly ignorant farmers who will never see the advantage of anything except their own blinders and ignorance...myths abound as we see here in many of the nay-sayers fabricated "reports." Smart educated farmers are professional businessmen who are succeeding while others just whine and moan. I do not see any topsoil erosion...we have contour farming and good land management. I'll have to go over to Nebraska sometime, I hope the countryside and farm practices are not as desperate as you say. Nobody says that the West will be a Ethanol or Biodiesel environment...too little water for too many crops and people. There may be an exodus to the better parts of the agricultural lands of the USA, just as we had in the past. Ethanol and Biodiesel are the fuels of the midwest, east and south...the historic centers of population in the USA. Population is centered around the East Coast megopolis, the south Atlantic and Gulf Coast and the Midwest. The Western ocean-hugging population centers are far from central distribution networks for many items, even on a good day. Why the grumblers about corn ...people who do not know how to farm or hate corn flakes. The cultivated wide rows of the farmland of yesteryear are gone forever. Heck, here in Iowa, the farmers have to get a permit to even start a dairy farm, a pig farm or chicken farm. Yet, we do not stop milk, pork or chicken production. We need all of our basic farm products to keep a viable country. Of course CA has its one and only cow...chuckle! Every TREE-HUGR likes to quote environmental standards..as if they care or even understand what an environmental standard is...most do not. They always try to quote some made-up environmental standards when there are none. Beware of them, they have been always with us and are the "know-nothings" of our nation. They don't want coal, oil, natural gas, nuclear, wind or crop energies developed or used...???? These obviously misguided people are really panicking because NOW renewable sources of energy are being used, not in some distant future of some questionable lab experiments...but NOW! Not in some Bin Laden hate-filled country that keeps sticking it to us, but viable solutions by Americans, for Americans here in America. If we cannot understand that, then we have lost the message of 9/11...we survive by American values on America's terms, not some Arab or South American terrorists.
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Replying to: seniorjose (May 27, 2006 4:45 am) You are kidding right? CA supplies 56% of the nations food. Not limited to most of the salad vegetables etc. WE eat very little that comes from the Midwest. Corn oil is not very healthy nor is corn syrup a mainstay of processed "junk food". We would all be healthier if the Midwest were to revert to family farms and grow organic vegetables and meat products. I do not see any topsoil erosion...we have contour farming and good land management. It is not what you see that hurts. The chemical fertilizers used to get those fantastic yields you are so proud of, leeches into the soil and the water table. It is obvious you did not read the NASA report on the "dead zone" caused by your state and several others. Just as you mention the Columbia River Dams causing big problems. So is the out of control race to grow corn for ethanol. You are obviously not concerned about the overall damage being done. You probably don't even like the seafood that is being destroyed. Being from Iowa you only eat Pork. I like Pork also. I don't eat as much as I used to. I hate the way it is raised in mega facilities in Iowa & other states. The saddest part is when the land is all laid waste and the greedy mega farmers pull out you will wonder what happened. By the way most of the crops in the CA desert are grown from Colorado River water not the Columbia. That is Washington, Oregon and Idaho that use Columbia River water for power and irrigation. Oh, and our CA cow is very productive. She gave enough milk for 2 billion pounds of cheese last year. Plus enough milk & milk products to export to other states. I don't want to hear any whining when oil drops to $40 per barrel and ADM shuts the ethanol stills down. Whether you believe it or not ADM is making you a one crop state. It would be much less traumatic if you were diversified. |
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Replying to: jkinzel (Apr 22, 2006 11:51 pm) |
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Replying to: catam (May 22, 2006 4:41 pm)
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Replying to: seniorjose (May 27, 2006 4:45 am) BTW, there are active and strong anti-ethanol groups in both Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Minnesota has mandated ethanol use in all cars -- nothing like the free market at work, eh? On the water deal, you may be sitting OK in Iowa, but the Great Plains may be a generation from serious problems. Already many communities in Nebraska are searching for clean water miles away, thanks to the nitrate contamination of groundwater from -- you guessed it -- growing and irrigating subsidy-driven corn on semi-arid land that gets about 15-16 inches of rain a year. In the western half or third of Nebraska, it has become almost like a desert in places. Still, the center pivots keep merrily plundering the aquifer. I detect the tide turning against them, and other Midwest farmers. Witness the outrage over the proposal to give farmers another subsidy break with fuel costs. Why do they deserve that and other, transportation-heavy businesses get no consideration? On the price of ethanol blends: E-10 has, at times, been higher than unleaded in other states besides Nebraska. Colorado and Kansas have been through that. What I also find intriguing is that ethanol makers claim that the price of ethanol has nothing to do with the price of gas/oil. The University of Nebraska studied that issue and, over the past 25 years, it found that the prices were linked throughout. It is an intriguing graph if you can track it down. This likely won't change -- when the price of oil goes up, the price of corn ethanol will go up. Another interesting scenario: There is 5 percent LESS corn planted by U.S. farmers this year. Why? Because of the rapidly rising cost of nitrate fertilizer. In the ethanol and corn lobbies' grand scheme to boost the production of ethanol, there will be less corn in the future for the cattlefeeding/HFCS/ethanol kitty. I foresee crazy things happening with ethanol in the next 3-4 years because this hasn't been thought out too well. Hopefully, cellulose can get online quicker than anticipated. I dare not mention CAFE standards, the easiest way to ease our dependence on foreign oil. That argument is much too simple and too true to go anywhere with the corn ethanol people. Like many things, they simply ignore it and play on people's fears of Mideast terrorism. Frankly, I don't see a huge connection between 9/11 and our oil crisis. I find it sad that many people push their pet issues -- ethanol being one of them -- with the scare tactic that we don't want another 9/11.
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Replying to: fireball1 (May 27, 2006 8:16 pm) Having owned a farm in MN for the last 30 years I can attest to the fact it is one of the most regressive states in the Union. Super High taxes and little or no benefits. Only thing going for it is decent fishing. Until they kill all the fish with over fertilization. Thank you for all your vital information. It is good to see others not blinded by ADM money & an easy fix to a very complex problem. NOW if we can just get congress off the Mega Ag payroll, and pull their heads out of you know where, we might be able to shut down this evil ethanol juggernaut.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 27, 2006 9:13 pm) "State government shouldn't intrude in the free market by setting an ethanol-blend gasoline mandate, [Colorado] Gov. Bill Owens said Friday." -- From "Ethanol bill one of 18 veto casualties," by John Fryar, in the May 27, 2006 Daily Times-Call of Longmont, CO, at: http://www.longmontfyi.com/Local-Story.asp?id=7916 Colorado now joins Wisconsin, California, and Idaho among states rejecting laws that would have forced drivers to buy and pump ethanol into their cars. Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell wants to pass a law by July 31 forcing drivers to buy ethanol in every gallon of gasoline sold in that state. "Representatives from GM, Ford and other automakers warned that any blend with more than 10 percent ethanol can corrode parts on a conventional vehicle." -- From "Automakers Warn Consumers About E85 Blend," by Dee-Ann Durbin, in the May 23, 2006 Baltimore Sun, at: http://www.baltimoresun.com/- business/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-flex-fuel-vehicles,0,883554.story |
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Replying to: seniorjose (May 27, 2006 6:04 pm) www.iaenvironment.org/documents/BiofuelsAdvisory1-26-06.pdf
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Replying to: fireball1 (May 28, 2006 11:28 am) It is reminiscent of the early days in the oil business, when no one was over seeing the operation. Spew a few thousand barrels into the Gulf no big deal. It is the same today in the ethanol business. No checks and balances on this bunch of corn growing cowboys. |
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Replying to: gagrice (May 27, 2006 9:13 pm) Your being totally enamored of big oil and their heavy handed tie-in to the Middle Eastern Muslim America-haters is a bit puzzling. Nobody in this country, nobody, does not believe that 9/11 was not linked to our current oil prices. Your absence of even being upset of big Middle Eastern oil cartels and traders and your so obvious hatred of all that we are trying to do in this country is a bit confusing. If you really hate this country so much and the democracy rule of the majority, then I suggest you do a bit of light reading and quit upsetting yourself so much, quit reading the forum. Calm down, you are taking shots against Minnesota and the USA on other forums as well, this is a discussion, not a diatribe against our form of government! It is not appropriate to an E85 discussion.
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