Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
You are in the Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
This discussion is ARCHIVED. To reactivate the discussion, post a request in the Lost? Ask the Hybrids Host for directions! discussion.
|
Replying to: catam (May 21, 2006 1:38 pm) ===================================================== Senate Democrats Introduce Broad Energy Package News and Analysis by Jesse Broehl, Editor, RenewableEnergyAccess.com http://renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story;jsessionid=281D79F1687A522705BC9- 3028DCDC8C1?id=44954
|
|
|
Replying to: gem069 (May 21, 2006 2:52 pm) There is very little that will actually result in less petroleum use, including the obvious remedy of doing something to encourage conservation. The Democrats are not much better than the Republicans as they want to be the party of "no hard choices". Predictably, the are using ethanol as the new free lunch. Require the auto companies to allow the use of ethanol, and, voila, everything is solved. But wait until consumers begin to actually understand what ethanol does to their gas mileage and hence their per mileage fuel costs. Unless there is a very large differential between gasoline and ethanol, you won't see many consumers switching. The Democrats have discovered a new way to pretend to solve the oil problem without actually doing anything which would cause anyone the slightest bit of inconvenience or responsible action to conserve.
|
|
|
Replying to: gem069 (May 21, 2006 2:52 pm) I am a pragmatist, this bill certainly seems possible, and I think its a great place to start. It certainly beats the heck out of the energy bill that the Republicans passed and King George signed last year. That thing did nothing except provide $2 billion in tax breaks for big oil. |
|
|
Replying to: catam (May 22, 2006 4:41 pm) Henry Ford and the boys from Detroit did not need the Feds to get them going in this automobile business. Let the people figure out how to keep the cars moving. We run out of oil and can't figure it out the government will not be able to do anything anyway. We expect too much out of a bunch of fat politicians that have done so little over the last 75 years that was worthwhile. |
|
|
I've been following the development of new battery technologies for the past few years and here is a recent press release from Alair Nanotechnologies. They are just one of many companies currently doing R&D on Lithium Ion batteries suitable for electric vehicles. http://www.b2i.us/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=546&ResLibraryID=157- 11&Category=856 What will also be interesting is to see if and when these types of batteries get close to viability will the oil companies buy up these companies to control the patents. Chevron bought a 50% stake in ECD/Ovonics about 6 years ago and almost immediately filed suit against anyone attempting to make large format NiMH batteries, the type that would be suitable for plug-in hybrids. Chevron named this company Cobasys and they do enter into licensing agreements with battery manufacturers to use their technologies. These agreements are very restrictive. Either the batteries must not be used for propulsion purposes or they must be limited in size. I don't tend to buy into conspiracy theories but for Chevron to have control over the usage of battery technology seems somewhat sinister in nature. Another interesting article if you have a little time. http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/hurryupandwait.html
|
|
|
Replying to: tpe (May 23, 2006 6:49 am) OIL companies are interested in making money. They know that oil will not always be as easy to get at as it is now. ARCO is a leader in photo voltaic solar panels. I see where Shell bought a 30% interest in Iogen the leader in biomass to ethanol production. I would trust the oil companies with the various technologies over the automakers. If Toyota had control of the best batteries do you think they would be likely to share with other auto makers at a fair price? I don't think so. They are already squeezing Ford out on hybrids by holding a gun to the head of the manufacturer that supplies many of the parts in the HSD system. If there is money to be made every one will try to get a piece of the action.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (May 21, 2006 3:10 pm) We have plenty of coal, plenty of land, plenty of solutions NOW! Add the oil we will get from ANWR and the continental shelf plus additional exploration, we should be able to wean our autos off Middle East oil!
|
|
|
Replying to: seniorjose (May 23, 2006 2:57 pm) My question is WHY? I think it is best to use all that is available. Nothing wrong with developing alternatives as we use other people's oil. It should be done in a responsible environmentally friendly way. I do not think it has been shown here that ethanol from corn is helping us use less fossil fuel or is it environmentally healthy. If you don't like using foriegn oil by your gas from ARCO, they are mostly using Alaska crude oil in their refineries. Biodiesel being used on a voluntary basis is the way things should be done. Shoving ethanol down every ones throat is science gone crazy. Producing ethanol in CA is not practical any more than it is in Iowa. More money can be made from other crops than corn. What happens when Kellogs decides to raise the price they are willing to pay for corn to make flakes? There goes any price advantage that ethanol might have had. You need to read about the mess in Brazil when they went gungho into ethanol 30 years ago. Many people got stuck with ethanol only cars and NO ethanol. Price of sugar went up, oil prices went down and the ethanol distillers were out of business. It will happen again and our tax dollars will make that sucking sound as they are flushed down the ADM toilet.
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (May 23, 2006 2:02 pm) Probably not but I don't think that is what is going on in the ECD/Ovonics, Cobasys business relationship. Why would they license their battery technology but often preclude it from being used in propulsion? Why would their agreement with Panasonic limit the size of the batteries they can produce? From everything I've read they get a 3% royalty. Seems to me the bigger the battery the bigger the royalty. Unlike your example of Toyota trying to maximize their profit I get the sense that isn't the primary goal of Cobasys. I'm sure I don't understand all the complexities of the business world but on the surface it is curious. And a web search has found other people that feel the same way. |
|
|
Replying to: seniorjose (May 23, 2006 2:57 pm) Turning the chemical energy from gasoline, ethanol, biodiesel, etc. into mechanical energy by burning it in an ICE is Rube Goldberg as far as I'm concerned. Maybe you think 35% efficiency represents a well engineered approach. |
|
You are here:
Forums
Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow?
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2010 Chevrolet Impala
2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
2010 Chevrolet Avalanche
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
