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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
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Replying to: gem069 (May 17, 2006 10:21 am)
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Replying to: nwng (May 18, 2006 6:10 am) That is what is being offered in FFV. There are no 4 cylinder vehicles set up to use E85 as of today. The smallest 6 cylinder is from Chrysler. It gets a combined 17 MPG burning E85. Not much incentive to go E85 unless you want a GM PU or SUV. The Lincoln Town Car V8 gets 18 MPG Hwy, that is close to the Chrysler Sebring with its 2.7L FFV engine. Toyota is the only Japanese company claiming to offer an E85 vehicle sometime in the future. It will be interesting to see how theirs stacks up mileage wise. Another big downside to E85. Range is cut by a third. So you have to find an elusive E85 station much more often.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 18, 2006 6:33 am) A few years ago Isuzu and GM had 4 banger FFV's Toyota is the only Japanese company claiming to offer an E85 vehicle sometime in the future. It will be interesting to see how theirs stacks up mileage wise. Along with Isuzu, Nissan and Mazda both offered FFV's a few years back, as did MB. As with the Big three these cars suffered about 25% loss in mileage using E85 (per the EPA estiments).
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Replying to: snakeweasel (May 18, 2006 7:16 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (May 18, 2006 7:32 am) Why not? They are Flex Fuel Vehicles which means they can run on E85 or pure gas or anything in between. If you burn gas there is no real difference from a engine thats just gas only. It just gives you the option of using E85.
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Replying to: snakeweasel (May 18, 2006 8:35 am) That is a reasonable question. I am protesting the damage that raising that much corn will cause. I am protesting the fact that ethanol is a corrosive that will undoubtedly shorten the life of our engines. I am protesting the fact that it takes almost as much fossil fuel to make ethanol as you get out. When you consider the loss of energy it may be more than you get back. I am protesting the E7 mandate that was not scientifically implemented. We could very well have another MTBE mess on our hands. Sure the Midwest loves it as it brings dollars from all parts of the USA into their pockets. It was only a couple years ago that the city of St. Paul, MN was suing the Ethanol industry for polluting their air. I guess ADM money shut them up.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 18, 2006 9:19 am)
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Replying to: jkinzel (May 18, 2006 9:38 am)
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Replying to: snakeweasel (May 18, 2006 10:08 am) Even bullish investors wary of ethanol Is the corn-based fuel a harbinger for the energy market, or just a lot of hogwash? CNNMoney.com May 17, 2006: 2:49 PM EDT |
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Replying to: gagrice (May 14, 2006 7:01 am)  I have no politics at play here, other than vote against the incumbent regardless of party. Exxon has the same right to make a profit as everybody else, and the profits they have reported are not out of line for the rest of the market (~11% net profit). If Toyota is the only company smart enough to profit from the battery technology, then so be it. The last figure I heard Toyota employed over 30,000 Americans, and they are increasing, while GM and Ford are significantly reducing their employemnt of Americans. If you use GM's theory about recirculating dollars (their employees buy products at a store, who then sells more and hires more, repeat) then Toyota is responcible for 200,000 American jobs. The oil industry gets all the major subsidies. There are many studies that find a gallon of gas would be more expensive without all the government subsidies. I have seen estimates from pennies more up to 30 cents more. I bet if I look hard enough I would find articles stating it could be cheaper, or it would be dollars more expensive than it is in today's market. It does not take a gallon of oil to make 1.21 gallons of ethanol. First, a MI State University found that ethanol production from corn nets a 56% increase in energy. Second, little oil is used in the production of ethanol. The number you state is trying to match the energy output, normally fuel inputs to ethanol production is natural gas or coal. Both of which are primarily US products. If small farmers cannot make money selling corn, than they should not be in the business. It is the same as the gas stations...most are corporate owned and the rest soon will be corporations or be gone. The available supply of useable Uranium is just about depleted. Few or no new reactors will be able to be built. The only option is to find technologies to make the waste products useful in future reactors. The arguments against coal are universal against any fuel. There are always waste products. What they do not tell you is that the waste from coal is a lot easier to trap than from other sources. Your source is MN public radio which is notorious for the NIMBY stance on everything, hence their very carefully worded message that CO2 was their concern (it should be sulfer). CO2 is easily removed from the air with scrubbers, the "problem" is the volume. If it were not, we would not have crews on space ships nor in submarines. Diesel's significant drawback almost destroyed Europe...Soot is part of the exhaust. There is little that can be done about it cheaply, and the soot is more toxic than gas burning engine exhaust. Although recent improvements to remove the sulfer content has helped greatly, and bioDiesel would help here too. You still end up with soot everywhere and a lot more C02 that is produced from coal burning. I do not know what to tell you about your GMC. GM trucks are known to suck down gas if you have a lead foot, but they also get great mileage (relatively speaking) when driven with a light foot.
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