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Chrysler, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mercury, Chevrolet Impala, Chevrolet Monte Carlo, Chevrolet Avalanche, Alternative Fuels, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Hatchback, Truck, Sedan, SUV
#442 of 2104 Re: Constructive Comments on E-85 [snakeweasel]
May 14, 2006 (7:04 pm)
Hybrids do NOT use E85 but they can use 10% Ethanol as all other modern autos and trucks can. 10% Ethanol is currently in use by 80% of Iowa auto owners.
E85 can be run on a limited set of GM autos today, an additional 400,000 E85/gasoline engines will be produced in 2006 and 2007, GM will make their executives use E85 equipped vehicles, they are like all E85 autos, dual fuel capable.
More and more E85 pumps are being installed in the midwest, the first large user of Ethanol E85...by the way, they seem to be used already in many Minnesota cities. Walmart here in Cedar Rapids and other Iowa cities sell a 10% Ethanol mix on ALL octane ratings on all pumps.
The midwest solution is here now, not stuck in some politician/environmentalists hate tank. A new Biodiesel plant just broke ground in southern Iowa and new Ethanol plants are coming on line NOW. 4 Billion gallons of Ethanol is already being manufactured this year in some 140 factories.
As an aside, I feel so sad for my former state of New York, both senators, including the Arkansas hillbilly, refuse to push for Ethanol...they have been captured by political demagoguery. Upstate New York is a disaster area for farming and ignorance...yes, I said ignorance. Seneca County NY, a once thriving farm belt county, looks like a third world country. The so-called environmentalists in New York State have decreed that there will be no Ethanol production, no wind farms (NO NEW ELECTRICAL DISTRIBUTION LINES CAN BE BUILT), no STINKING Ethanol plant...sigh, what an ignorant bunch of hicks (my thoughts). Governor Patacki has even suggested removing all NYS taxes on Ethanol fuel and is for Ethanol production as a way to assist his farmers.
So it looks like the Midwest is they only place going great guns on Ethanol manufacture and distribution...that's a surprise. Modification for E85 engines does not appear to cost (if anything) more than a couple of hundred dollars on new cars and trucks.
E85 prices have been cut May 1st here in Iowa and Minnesota by 85 cents a gallon to around a $1.90 a gallon. Any subsidy is a heck of a lot less than spending billions for oil subsidies.
Ford is mumbling about using E85 in their Hybrid Escapes...they are looking for a way to justify the $4,000 to $6,000 premium on their Hybrid models. Please do not say Hybrid and E85 the same breath, one is a Rube Goldberg adaptation and the other is the E85 practical solution.
Granted, E85 autos will only be using Ethanol in the Midwest, and probably slowly as it spreads to the East Coast and South, putting the millions of acres of unused and marginal lands into corn and switch grass production. Of course, biodiesel (made from soybeans right now) has the same fate...being only used in Midwest to Eastern/Southern states and not in the far West...what a pity.
#443 of 2104 Re: Constructive Comments on E-85 [john1701a]
May 14, 2006 (7:12 pm)
I am sorry, the Prius does not have a recharge limitation, you are thinking about electric cars. Ethanol is a direct replacement for oil so it leaves the saudi oil for China.
#444 of 2104 Re: I wonder.... [gagrice]
May 14, 2006 (7:49 pm)
Give us some practical solutions not politics as usual.
During 2005, 3.6% of new passenger vehicles in the US were diesel.
Of course, that means that 96.4% of new vehicles ran on something else. My guess is that virtually all of those used gasoline.
Any fuel that doesn't address this reality is far from practical, at least during the short- to medium-term. It would be necessary to radically alter or quickly retire the existing fleet of vehicles, and to drastically change purchasing habits/ choices, before anything related to diesel could offer a practical alternative or drastically reduce gasoline consumption in the US. A solution that lacks widespread adoption and an adequate distribution network is not a solution.
#445 of 2104 Re: Constructive Comments on E-85 [seniorjose]
May 14, 2006 (8:57 pm)
Ethanol is a direct replacement for oil so it leaves the saudi oil for China.
Ethanol is just adding another step in the use of fossil fuel. Tell me how you can produce ethanol without using oil? Then tell me how you plan to produce ethanol from switchgrass when the scientists say the process is at least ten years in the future. Then could you please tell all of us how many small farmers you know that are making anything from ethanol. It is all going into mega ag corporation pockets. Along with the politicians bought with corn and ethanol money. One of the few times I agree with NE politics, when they reject this gigantic scam on the American public. The one positive aspect is that it will create jobs in the midwest. The downside is the rest of the country will have to carry the weight of this boondoggle.
#446 of 2104 Re: Constructive Comments on E-85 [seniorjose]
May 15, 2006 (5:55 am)
Hybrids do NOT use E85
Never said that they do.
The midwest solution is here now,
It isn't the solution, it could be part of the temporary fix that will see us through to the solution (whatever that may be) but it isn't the solution.
Walmart here in Cedar Rapids and other Iowa cities sell a 10% Ethanol mix on ALL octane ratings on all pumps.
They sell it because its a federal mandate, supposively for cleaner air. It does two things, first it make their political contributors (companies like ADM) rich, secondly it makes them look like they are doing something to make the air cleaner.
4 Billion gallons of Ethanol is already being manufactured this year in some 140 factories.
which is just 2.5% of what we would need if we were using E85 in all our vehicles.
As an aside, I feel so sad for my former state of New York, both senators, including the Arkansas hillbilly, refuse to push for Ethanol...
Well maybe Hillary isn't so bad, FWIW shes an IL suburbanite (while we don't like to admit it she went to the same high school I went to). Anyway if the government has to push ethanol usage it means that market forces aren't. If market forces are not pushing ethanol then its not economically feesable. I say let the market decide.
Please do not say Hybrid and E85 the same breath, one is a Rube Goldberg adaptation and the other is the E85 practical solution.
Why not? Why cant you put an E85 engine in a hybrid? It would be no different than a regular hybrid other than the engine could use E-85.
#447 of 2104 Re: Constructive Comments on E-85 [gagrice]
May 15, 2006 (7:52 am)
Dumb small farmers are a thing of the past, being paid to not work on government welfare. Smart farmers are the future, whether small or large. Corn for ethanol production brings a 10 cent a bushel premium. There are many small farmers and small farmer coops in the midwest. the boondoggle are the politicians and their oil-fired political action committees, such as the NYS senators.
We had to crawl before we can walk and we are now beyond the crawling stage where Ethanol is being used...NOT to use Saudi oil. It is an alternate fuel for the Midwest and the East/South. My dad was a small farmer from upstate New York and this holds promise for all small farmers. The scam is not being fostered on the country...the scam is being done by the Jihads and terrorists.
Paying $2.00 or less a gallon for E85 is dramatic progress. Politicians bought with corn and ethanol money are a heck of a lot better politicians than those bought with Saudi money (by the way, politicians are a factor of American democracy and always have been).
At least Ethanol and Biodiesel create an alternative fuels that can be used to help dramatically heighten energy independence. Thus Ethanol and Biodiesel plus opening up Alaska oil operations and continental shelf drilling will help the USA become energy independent.
There has to be better ways and answers that satisfy the majority of Americans...remember, majority rules without bothering the minority.
#448 of 2104 Re: Constructive Comments on E-85 [seniorjose]
May 15, 2006 (8:41 am)
Ethanol and Biodiesel plus opening up Alaska oil operations and continental shelf drilling will help the USA become energy independent.
I think we are closer on this than I first suspected. I am for alternatives to oil. I don't believe we will ever be oil independent. We can take a bite out of the imports. For ethanol to be practical it has to be processed close to the market. This last energy bill with the kneejerk mandate for ethanol to replace MTBE is directly raising the price of gasoline across the nation. When you have to truck millions of gallons of ethanol to the West Coast it is no wonder that we are paying $3.35 for unleaded gas. Biodiesel is a viable alternative to diesel. It also has limitations that have to be considered when switching from fossil diesel.
We are also on the same page agreeing that we have the best Congress money can buy. I don't think you would be quite so exuberant about ethanol if you were getting the ethanol shaft as we in CA are.
Dumb small farmers are a thing of the past, being paid to not work on government welfare.
Owning a small MN farm and having several friends that actually live off of their farms, I find your harsh assessment incorrect. I do not know of a one that lives off of government welfare. Especially not to the extent of what we give to mega farmers and corporate giants like ADM. All the farmers I know have small to medium dairy farms. They work 365 days a year to produce enough milk to survive.
We have price controls on milk in CA because all the small dairy farmers were run out of business by big operators. Then they tried to rip off the public. It looks like we will see the same thing happen with ethanol.
#449 of 2104 Re: I wonder.... [gagrice]
May 15, 2006 (8:45 am)
E85 will have to sell for 75% of unleaded regular to break even.
E85 is now starting to sell for 85 cents a gallon less than regular gasoline, about $2.00 or less a gallon. At least the Hybrid Rube Goldberg designed excess costs are not going to impact the Ethanol market, what a disaster in the making. Remember that Hybrids were brought to market only to maximize additional auto manufacturers profits. These troublesome vehicles have been with us long enough to make the over $5,000 battery pack replacement a very nervous time for owners.
Minnesota now leads E85 pumps with Iowa, Wisconsin and Illinois not far behind. With the additional 400,000 GM mostly and small number of Ford vehicles coming on line, E85 is becoming a part of the Midwest energy scene. ...one E85 pump in southern California? I am surprised because Ethanol is not a viable product for California. Water is too valuable a commodity in the dessert environment than to grow corn, switch grass or whatever is the new product for Ethanol...seems like energy independence will be a regional solution.
"As an aside, an experimental usage of tight bundles of common ordinary grass to fire an electric generating plant that normally uses other sources of energy is being evaluated in Southern Iowa. Initial results are very encouraging...hmmm, grass for electricity too! At least the midwest is looking for solutions, not screeching and whining and throwing temper tantrums as politicians are wont to do!"
E85 (Ethanol) is not he end all to beat all, but a viable (here now) alternative to Osama Bib Laden's energy policy. There will be more alternatives for different regions of the United States, one size does not fit all.
It may affect population shifts in the USA, after all, we cannot make the dessert bloom forever using high priced energy.
#450 of 2104 Re: I wonder.... [seniorjose]
May 15, 2006 (11:06 am)
one E85 pump in southern California?
RTC is owned by Pearson Ford. They have been a leader in alternative transportation and fuels. I checked a couple days ago and they are now selling E85 for $2.99 vs unleaded at $3.35. I have no idea how many vehicles they serve. It may be for fleet services.
#451 of 2104 Re: Constructive Comments on E-85 [gagrice]
May 16, 2006 (9:08 am)
The East coast solution to Ethanol is ready for execution...however, the politicians are dragging their feet a bit in permitting Ethanol plants. Seems that there are a number of pols who cannot understand what Ethanol is, gee, we elect some sorry vacuums.
ADM and agriculture in general are solving the MTBF debacle. Ramping up will take time. However, ADM and other companies are owned by average Joe stockholders who expect a profit from their investment...and they don't have to worry about dry holes in the ground. It is a viable solution whose time is now, for how long we do not know. At least the average auto can use ethanol, not like the huge price premium on the Rube Goldberg hybrids that nobody can repair...their teething problems are downright legendary.