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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
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Replying to: rockylee (Oct 19, 2006 4:51 pm) Keep reading and posting interesting auto stuff.
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Replying to: gagrice (Oct 19, 2006 4:58 pm) Will do my best when time permits.  Rocky |
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Replying to: kw5kw (Oct 19, 2006 10:33 am) You might better explain that to Indonesia, where the forest fires are making it impossible for planes to land. You are proposing burning items that are carbon based and will produce a lot of CO2 and other pollutants, including ash.
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Oct 16, 2006 10:08 am) Again, there are things about an EV that I really don't like and need these things figured out and presented in an all-around manner. Meaning, just don't give me the good, give me the con as well. Myself and others would be more accepting of it if alternatives were presented in that manner. |
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Replying to: stevedebi (Oct 19, 2006 6:49 pm)
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Replying to: kw5kw (Oct 20, 2006 10:57 am) What do you propose to do with the by products? |
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Replying to: kw5kw (Oct 20, 2006 10:57 am) We have that already. It's called the Internal Combustion Engine. And the efficiency (BTU's in the fuel converted to forward motion) is SUBSTANTIALLY higher than burning a fuel (whether it is gasoline, wood pulp, paper, or recycled cow farts) in a steam boiler (particularly if you are trying to have a boiler in a closed system driving a generator to produce on-board electricity to drive a motor). There's a big reason that locomotives converted from coal-burning steam power to big diesel electrics. It's called progress. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Oct 19, 2006 4:48 pm) "Ethanol-only cars were sold in Brazil in significant numbers between 1980 and 1995; between 1983 and 1988, they accounted for over 90% of the sales." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil I have worked with another large standardization group called NSF. In general they, like UL, seem to do a decent job. However, I have noticed that as they have gotten larger they become bureaucratic and a bit self serving. Not saying this is the case with UL, but boy, the timing just seems a bit odd. In the end, I don't think it is going to make a big difference.
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Replying to: avalon02wh (Oct 21, 2006 5:34 am) It does seem strange that they have had E85 for several years. Maybe UL is just slow on the up take. Or maybe the folks at the various fire depts were not doing their job all this time. Just letting it slide. After all it is big business in the midwest. We still only have ONE commercial E85 pump in all of CA. If it gets shut down, who will notice. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Oct 13, 2006 7:00 pm) I would agree that towns, local and state governments often roll out the red carpet for businesses. Call centers and auto plants are good examples. Some work, some go bust. The big difference this time around is that oil and gasoline prices will remain high enough that ethanol will be able to make it in the long run (E10, not so much of the E85). Demand for the oil from the USA, China, Europe and India will keep prices higher. Supply is still fine but we will pay more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Oil_Prices_1861_2006.jpg I am guessing that most people saw the recent headlines "Demand for gasoline surges as prices take a dive" http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2006-10-19-driving-more-usat_x.h- tm and the OPEC decision to try and cut output by 1.2 MBD. This should stop oil prices from dropping. We may even see an increase in gasoline prices back up into the $2.50 range. On a side note: You mentioned water. In my view, water or lack of, will be the single biggest issue that slows or stops construction of new ethanol plants after the current expansion. Some plants are breaking ground before they have secured water permits - a big problem. In one example I am aware of, a plant assumed the city wells they would inherit had the needed 1,500 gallon per minute capacity. Nope. The wells were only capable of half that rate. The oil sand projects in Canada seem to be running into water issues too.
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