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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
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Replying to: gagrice (Sep 20, 2006 12:21 pm) That is too bad about the prices in CA, in St. Cloud MN, gas is $2.15 and E85 was $1.64. Even with a 17% reduction in mileage on my Taurus when using e85, e85 is cheaper. But California is probably the worst example you could give if you are looking for fair and balanced information on this topic. Likewise Iowa and MN are problably the worst example on the cheap end. The Oct 06 futures price of e85 is currently 1.765, and gas is 1.55 for oct delivery. Besides Califoria's gov't is going to push the low and mid-income folks into oblivion with the new do-not-exhale CO2 "tax".. Suing the auto makers for building cars like like suing Farmers for raising cattle that cause people to get fat. You cannot reduce CO2 emissions from the tailpipe in any economical way with a gasoline engine technology. California should sue the state of California for building roads. Studies prove if you build roads, the public will fill them with cars which in turn burn gas.
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Replying to: smatt11 (Oct 02, 2006 9:58 am) The local Gas City by me that sells E85 is usually only $0.20 ~ $0.30 cheaper than regular. And with their regular higher than a few stations mid-grade it doesn't really make economical sense to purchase E85. |
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Replying to: smatt11 (Oct 02, 2006 9:58 am) According to the EPA it is a 26% reduction in mileage. |
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| Scanning through the E85 website the best price I found was $1.62 in Sioux Falls. Unleaded can be had for $2.04. That is the best price for ethanol. It still is a loser for the guy buying a flex fuel vehicle. | |
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For Dan Norte, deciding where to fuel up his Ford F150 pickup is not always as simple as scanning pump prices. When he heads to Iowa to see family, the synthetic-oil dealer from Owatonna, Minn., burns an 87-octane Minnesota-mandated gasoline blend that is 10 percent corn-based ethanol. It costs about the same as comparable-grade gasoline. For the trip back he has a 15-percent option, an Iowa blend rated at 89 octane that can be up to a nickel a gallon cheaper. But Mr. Norte has figured out that his savings would probably be erased by lost m.p.g. from the faster-burning fuel. |
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I love how the car manufacturers and mid america has duped US consumers into even considering ethenol. Yeah let's spend Billions into useless crap when we have the next generation energy source under our nose. That's right, u fools. It's called electricity. We already have the distribution network. We already have the battery technology. We already have the cars. What we need to do is make the d*mn lazy car manufacturer's into building a plug-in hybrids and add little more battery into the car. If a enough battery can be used to make the car run 40-50 miles per charge, we would eliminate 90% of oil use for cars today. Oil engine will be used mostly for longer travel, and would kick in when battery dies. If the govt instead gave tax credits for extra batteries, we would be there tomorrow. But, it'll never happen. Why? Because US consumers are stupid. We can't think outside of the box. How can we live without gas stations? Plug the car in at home or at work? No way! Here's more CO into the air until we learn the hard lesson.
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Ethanol might be a good deal if your a futures trader, maybe not so good if you like to eat. http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Story.aspx?guid=%7BF067B08F%2DC329%2D44C3%- 2DA668%2D58D3A4B83605%7D&siteid=&print=true&dist=printTop SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Corn futures closed higher for a third session in a row Friday, with their benchmark contract reaching a fresh record level and gaining 16% for the week as traders fretted over tighter supplies of the commodity. Corn for December delivery closed up 16 1/4 cents at $3.145 a bushel on the Chicago Board of Trade after reaching a high of $3.17. The contract has never closed or traded at levels this high before. The contract finished the day over 43 cents above last Friday's close of $2.71.
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1.62 for E85 sounds ok compared to the 2.49 i'm paying for diesel. but diesel is still a win with 44 mpg. what would that 1.62 be if there were no subsidies? one of my ethanol-stooge midwestern aggie pals says the subsidies have expired. anyhoo: 1.62/2.49 * 44 = 28 mpg for the equivalent cost/mile with E85. maybe a scooter could get 28 mpg on E85 but not a real car! |
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Replying to: tiredofterror (Oct 13, 2006 11:07 am) Plug-in hybrids will be an option as the tech gets more mainstream. The manufacturers are still getting comfortable with the hybrid tech. These things take time. I really don't think we will be there tomorrow or next year for that matter. Where are you going to get the raw material needed for 1 million, 10 million or 20 million sets of batteries a year? You just don't go down to the local wally-mart to order a few million batteries. Toyota has already said that lack of batteries is holding back sales of their hybrids. "Explosive growth in the number of hybrid gas/electric vehicles manufactured and sold in coming years may strain makers of the expensive battery packs that help power them." http://www.auto-careers.org/hybrids%20Newspape%20%20artr.htm Cold weather is a battery killer. Up here in the North Country you are going to have a hard time convincing people to use a battery based vehicle when the temp drops to the point where your nose hairs freeze and the snow makes a cool crunching sound when you walk on it. It takes a lot of energy to keep the windows frost free, the car toasty warm and the 300 watt stereo cranking  I also wonder what kind of strain all those battery powered cars will put on the power grid. I suspect that some electric grids (California) are at or near capacity on hot days. Maybe someone out there can do the math to see what the additional load would be on the power grid? E85, and ethanol production in general, is making a big difference in the midwest. Jobs, Jobs and Jobs! |
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