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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Aug 21, 2006 5:27 am) Seemed kind of cheap to me also. I do see $2.73 in the Anna area. I guess you just cannot trust any of the information on the E85 websites. I agree on the personal attacks. I guess if you do not have any facts to back up your viewpoint you just attack those that do. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Aug 21, 2006 5:40 am) |
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| Let's drop the personal back and forth please. | |
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with the price of gas, it's no wonder that European have chosen diesels but they suffer from significantly impacted air quality - Europe STINKS (literally, not figuratively), which is a real shame I wonder how they do vis a vis lost workdays and the like (air pollution-caused health effects) Americans would not accept the stench that comes from all those diesels. Almost every American who travels to Europe remarks on (a) the percentage of small cars and (b) how the air stinks of diesel How does ethanol smell?
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Replying to: alp8 (Aug 21, 2006 7:59 am) Good point, maybe like Jack Daniels. Until they overcome the problems of clean production and transport, we will not know in CA what it smells like. As far as diesels in the EU. Only Germany has had ULSD for more than a couple years, from what I have read. Not all the EU countries have adopted the ULSD mandate. I would expect with 50% of the cars being diesel and not all clean burning as the current crop, there would be pollution. Just like here before we mandated clean gasoline and catalytic convertors. Not all the states have converted to low sulfur gasoline or diesel yet. It is one thing to mandate and another to enforce. high sulfur gas is the reason that cars get a different rating in the CARB states vs the non-CARB states. |
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Biodiesel fouls the environment like no other fuel does. it is creating extremely large fish kills in the midwest near where new Biodiesel plants are located. Local and state governments are examining the permitting process as what kills fish will surely kill people as it pervades our ground water and food chain. There is talk that Biodiesel plants may be shut down if they are anywhere near elements in our food chain. Meanwhile, Ethanol production, new plants and newer technologies have proven to be non-destructive to the environment and cheaper to produce every day. Except for the ***CENSORED*** I can think of no basically educated person who understands science and modern renewable fuels who would object to Ethanol. We will not be a country that stinks like the befouled counries of Europe...especially with diesels that are just junk now, ask any European...besides who cares what the socialist Europeans do? No reliable and low-cost diesel engine is produced in Europe yet...maybe in another 100 years!
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Replying to: seniorjose (Aug 21, 2006 11:33 am) Link please. Meanwhile, Ethanol production, new plants and new technologies have proven to be non-destructive to the environment. While the production of ethanol may be "non destructive" the growing of the corn (mostly used in producing ethanol) is anything but. I can think of no basically educated person who understands science and modern renewable fuels who would object to Ethanol. Name calling again? I can think of many educated people who find what is going on with ethanol a bit unnerving. FWIW most people I know who actually get the facts and have no agenda don't see ethanol as a solution. |
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Replying to: seniorjose (Aug 21, 2006 11:33 am) Obviously, it takes a fair amount of energy to produce ethanol (though it's been reported numerous times that the amount of energy produced is greater than the amount of energy consumed). My question is: how much of the energy CONSUMED to produced ethanol can be (or is) SUPPLIED by ethanol? In other words, if a fair amount of the energy being consumed to produce ethanol is in the form of oil, then does the production of ethanol REALLY reduce our demand for oil? |
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| Ethanol is nothing more than politcal payoff to a few farmers and in return they pay off members of congress. Same ole dishonest game. Both parties and both houses. | |
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Replying to: alp8 (Aug 21, 2006 7:59 am) I have been to many countries in Europe (including eastern Europe) and only one of them had much smell of "fumes" -- and that was the first time I visited the country. In later visits, years later that is, I am certain the air quality was better than many American cities. When I first visited Poland, I went from Berlin to Poznan via train. This was in the early 1990's -- the wall had come down, of course, but the contrast between east and west so to speak was darn near stark. Almost like taking the drive from central Chicago to Gary (Indiana) -- or from Manhattan to Newark. As about 5 years passed, I made a second visit, this time to Warsaw. Hmmm, I thought, at first -- "kinda seems like Detroit, a bit smoggy, but a huge improvement and I actually saw western cars on this trip." Time Passes: Another 5 years, back to Warsaw and to Crackow, on to Prague and to cities including Amsterdam, the Hague, Brussles, Luxembourg City, London, Paris, Vienna, Triere, Munich, Ingolstadt, Frankfurt, Innsbruck, Verona, Milan, Rome, Venice (really smelly, but not diesel) and on and on and on from 1993 to 2005 (some years 6 trips in one year.) In 2005, I visited again, Munich, Innsbruck, Verona and Venice (these cities may not demonstrate the case for or against Europe Stinks, but they are in Europe.) In many respects, Europe (from the above perspective) has cleaned itself up -- America, by comparison has dirtied itself down. The number of smog alert days here in Cincinnati has gone up -- our busses stink and we are constantly told "not to mow our lawns or fill our gas tanks before 6PM." My impression is the Ultra Low Emissions diesels have been a huge success in the EU (and beyond since some of the countries I have been to weren't able to join the EU from the get go) as far as stinkyness is concerned. I say, bring on the UL diesels -- bring 'em here, bring 'em now, and bring plenty of 'em. At least if the criteria is smell -- for, from my perspective, Europe (as broad as that may seem) smells cleaner than America (and I will narrow those characterizations by saying I am generally speaking of the urban areas.)
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