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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Jul 01, 2006 5:31 am) Good picture. You know I worked 25 years at the end of the Dalton Highway and never drove further than 40 miles South to go fishing. I do think a few will get sucked into the hype and rationalize that by using E85 they are doing something for America. Same as the person that buys a Hybrid. It does defy conventional wisdom and logic.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 01, 2006 5:48 am) I do think a few will get sucked into the hype and rationalize that by using E85 they are doing something for America. Yeah a few will buy into the hype. But I don't think as many will that have done the hybrid route. With a hybrid people see you have one, with a FFV who knows what your running.
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Jul 01, 2006 6:08 am) That is exactly right. You may have a corn cob in your tailpipe but you are probably spewing gas fumes. Outside of the government agencies I don't see much future for E85. I think one person has posted here that they are using it. Will they when it costs as much or more than regular unleaded? Looks like a real bargain in Kansas City. This is copied from the E85 website. From: Ted E85 Price: 3.499 Station Name: Presto Conoco, Bannister/Holmes Station City: Kansas City Unleaded Price: 2.799 Date: Friday, June 30, 2006 Here's a real deal in SC on E85: From: Chuck E85 Price: 3.65 Station Name: Tims Petroleum Station City: Columbia,SC Unleaded Price: 2.61 Date: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 |
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Jul 01, 2006 5:31 am) I agree that comparisons to gas are to be expected, but MPG is not the only benchmark. If MPG was the main driver, we'd all be driving diesels, which clearly we aren't and probably won't do. Obviously there are other motivations and considerations, and consumers will often make these decisions based upon a "good enough" standard of some sort. If E85 was cheaper or perceived as being "better" in some other way, that would generate sales.
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Replying to: socala4 (Jul 01, 2006 8:57 am) We were headed that direction in the last gas crisis of the late 1970s & 1980s. Every major car maker had diesel cars for sale. They were noisy, smelly and slow. That is where your perception and most of America's perception of diesel comes from. If E85 was cheaper or perceived as being "better" in some other way, that would generate sales. Perception by the uninformed is that E85 is going to save us from the evil oil empire. E85 burns cleaner granted. At what cost in pollution to grow and produce? You read 10 studies and none agree on how much fossil fuel it takes to make ethanol. More than likely with having to truck it across the country to the coasts it takes more fossil fuel to produce ethanol than you get out.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 01, 2006 9:51 am) I'd like to see some hard data about that. I don't know what penetration diesel may have had during the seventies, but based upon what I remember from the time, I seriously doubt that diesel comprised even 10% of the light vehicle market in the US. You read 10 studies and none agree on how much fossil fuel it takes to make ethanol. Yet you always go with the worst case scenario. Why not look at the range of data, and consider the merits and flaws of each of them? There's no need to grind an ax, pro or con, about any of this stuff.
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Replying to: socala4 (Jul 01, 2006 6:01 pm) There most certainly is a reason. It is my tax money and I assume your tax money that is subsidizing this boondoggle called ethanol from corn. Or to make it sound good to the masses "Live Green and Go Yellow". I have no problem with ethanol if it is left to a free market to grow the corn and produce the ethanol. It is the subsidies and the tax breaks that I am upset about. I am not behind subsidies for biodiesel either. If it cannot make it on its own merit it must not be viable. |
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Replying to: socala4 (Jul 01, 2006 6:01 pm) In 1975, only Mercedes-Benz, Peugeot and Opel sold diesel cars in the United States. GM got into the diesel market in 1977 and sold one million of them from 1977 to 1981 as buyers looked for a hedge against rising fuel prices. |
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Replying to: socala4 (Jul 01, 2006 8:57 am) I don't think anyone is using MPG as the only benchmark. Most people are basically using the cost per mile. Of course many people would accept 20 MPG on a $1 a gallon fuel than get 35 on a $3 a gallon fuel. But thats not the case with E85 is it?
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