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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? 
2104 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2006 at 5:34 AM
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 22, 2006 3:45 pm) No, the market is still too small for that. TMC is trying to create a market, and obviously thinks that it's worth the investment. At this pace, I would expect this to become a profitable technology and a great brand builder, almost surely worth the investment.
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Replying to: socala4 (Jun 22, 2006 3:49 pm) |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 22, 2006 2:38 pm)
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 22, 2006 4:53 pm) I think that you need to realize that you are one of a very small group of people who think that this is important. The average consumer does not loathe the gas engine as you do. Sure, they won't mind an EV that works, but right now, they don't work. (And yes, the range and inability to refuel on the fly are significant problems.) The automakers need to appeal to customer needs, whether they are current needs or indicative of an unserved but pent-up demand. Your EV doesn't do that. There are different market segments with different priorities, but almost nobody wants a car with about as much range as has your typical car when the "low fuel" light comes on, and then requires all day to fill up. There is no value proposition in that to anyone but for a few ideologues, and there aren't enough of those to create a market. It's not a conspiracy, it's just the market at work, and the key to success comes from serving the market, not from an Area 51 bogeyman that doesn't exist.
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 22, 2006 1:35 pm) I was originally thinking a lot more than the million mark, but then I figured that would be more of a demand figure that wouldn't be satisfied. How much fuel would 1 million vehicles save. Probably about 500 million gallons per year. Not all that much relative to our total consumption but conservation needs to take place on the individual level. Well its been said that the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. Or the journey to save a 100 billion gallons of gas starts with 500 million. |
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Replying to: socala4 (Jun 22, 2006 3:52 pm) Create a market? That's an interesting concept from someone that states manufacturers don't offer diesels or EVs because a market doesn't exist. Toyota has been trying to create this market since 2001. That's a pretty big investment on their part based on a future market. So why are you so quick to dismiss EVs or diesels based on current sales? In the case of diesels you are really off target. I realize that only about 1% of vehicles sold in this country are diesel. Here's a hypothetical question. If Toyota offered a diesel Camry or Honda offered a diesel Accord do you think it would only account for 1% of these car's sales? Your answer will say a lot about how in touch with reality you really are.
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Replying to: socala4 (Jun 22, 2006 2:15 pm) Its kind of hard to look at what the average car buyer is buying and then say they won't buy something thats not even avaliable to them. Secondly unless you can read their minds you can't know why they are buying them. maybe they are buying them because there is no alternative. |
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 22, 2006 3:05 pm) The sad thing about that is that they had at least 5,000 people on a waiting list. And it was a waiting list you had to wait to get on.
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Replying to: socala4 (Jun 22, 2006 5:03 pm) Most of our decisions involve tradeoffs. Granted EVs aren't suitable for everyone based on limited range and re-charge times. But they do have the positive aspect of reduced fuel consumption and costs. Depending on the individual these trade-offs may or may not make sense. I contend that for a significant number of people the pluses outweigh the negatives. I don't know what this number is but I think it is marketable.
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Replying to: tpe (Jun 22, 2006 5:37 pm) TMC is proving there's a market for hybrids by selling products as fast it can make them. 100,000 units is respectable for a mass market car. The fact that automakers are scrambling to launch their own version shows you that the industry leaders think that there's something to it. All we have is your hopes and dreams, no data that supports your conclusions. Since it is your theory, you need to provide support for your supposition that there's a market. Your theory is built on the notion that everyone in the industry is dumb, and that none of them understand the results of their own research and development. If Wagoner means it about the EV1, then he needs to revive it. If GM could use it as a turnaround product, he'd be a hero...but he seems to betting on HHR's, instead.
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