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Has CAFE reached the end of its usefulness? - READ ONLY

560 messages,  Last post on Dec 08, 2012 at 3:14 PM

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What is this discussion about? Fuel Efficiency (MPG)

Messages Page 52 of 56

#511 of 560 Re: CAFE [nippononly] by benjaminh

Jun 13, 2011 (1:31 pm)

Replying to: nippononly (Jun 13, 2011 1:18 pm)
By 2025 you should get your wish--if we all live that long! As you've probably heard, the feds are planning to push CAFE mpg from c. 35 in 2017 (which is really only 26 combined in the new, more realistic epa calculation) to c. 50-60 mpg by then. My rough in the head calculation is that a 50 mpg CAFE, which is maybe about 38 mpg in the new system, will give almost all of us smaller cars with smaller engines. A lot more hybrids too. In other words, new cars will look closer to what they are in Japan and Europe in about a dozen years.
 
Maybe we'll have to start eating better and exercising more to fit in our smaller cars...?

#512 of 560 in the year 2025 by benjaminh

Jun 13, 2011 (1:37 pm)

if man is still alive, if woman can survive, they may fiiiiiind~
at their local Honda dealer
 
A 2025 Civic that's about the size of a 1998 Civic. But it will get maybe 50 mpg on the highway, even without a hybrid, because it might have something like a 1.2 liter 4 cylinder VTEC-i3 engine with direct injection that's maybe even a turbo. Just a guess.

#513 of 560 Re: in the year 2025 [benjaminh] by nippononly

Jun 14, 2011 (8:28 am)

Replying to: benjaminh (Jun 13, 2011 1:37 pm)
A future to look forward to indeed!

#514 of 560 standard for 2025 by benjaminh

Jun 29, 2011 (8:25 am)

LaHood on 2025 fuel standards: 'We want to get it right'
David Shepardson/ Detroit News Washington Bureau
 
Washington — Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said today he is optimistic regulators and automakers can reach agreement on new fuel efficiency standards for the 2017-2025 timeframe.
 
In a Detroit News interview today on the sidelines of an event on Egypt, LaHood pointed to the May 2009 ceremony in which automakers backed a big jump in corporate average fuel economy requirements, or CAFE standards, for the 2012-2016 model years.
 
"Our people are very professional at this. I think we proved that with the last CAFE standard. We got it right because we had every car company standing in the Rose Garden with the president," LaHood said. "We want to get it right this time and when we hit the target we'll let everybody know what it is."
 
The White House told U.S. automakers last week it was considering requiring a fleetwide average 56.2 mpg for cars and light trucks by 2025 — a move that could add at least $2,100 to $2,600 to the price of cars. But regulators say owners would recoup the higher upfront costs in 2.5 to 3.5 years via fuel savings.
 
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110628/AUTO01/106280401/LaHood-on-2025-fuel-standar- ds---We-want-to-get-it-right-#ixzz1QgAC8cp7

#515 of 560 standard for 2025 by benjaminh

Jun 29, 2011 (8:25 am)

LaHood on 2025 fuel standards: 'We want to get it right'
David Shepardson/ Detroit News Washington Bureau
 
Washington — Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said today he is optimistic regulators and automakers can reach agreement on new fuel efficiency standards for the 2017-2025 timeframe.
 
In a Detroit News interview today on the sidelines of an event on Egypt, LaHood pointed to the May 2009 ceremony in which automakers backed a big jump in corporate average fuel economy requirements, or CAFE standards, for the 2012-2016 model years.
 
"Our people are very professional at this. I think we proved that with the last CAFE standard. We got it right because we had every car company standing in the Rose Garden with the president," LaHood said. "We want to get it right this time and when we hit the target we'll let everybody know what it is."
 
The White House told U.S. automakers last week it was considering requiring a fleetwide average 56.2 mpg for cars and light trucks by 2025 — a move that could add at least $2,100 to $2,600 to the price of cars. But regulators say owners would recoup the higher upfront costs in 2.5 to 3.5 years via fuel savings.
 
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110628/AUTO01/106280401/LaHood-on-2025-fuel-standar- ds---We-want-to-get-it-right-#ixzz1QgAC8cp7

#516 of 560 56 by 2025? by benjaminh

Jun 29, 2011 (8:27 am)

LaHood declined to comment on the 56.2 mpg figure.
 
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Environmental Protection Agency want to complete a draft of the standards and send it to the White House Office of Management and Budget by the end of July.
 
LaHood said the goal is another Rose Garden ceremony with automakers.
 
The figure would require average an annual increase in fuel efficiency of 5 percent, but regulators have told automakers they will "backload" some of the steepest increases to the later years — when electric vehicles may be in wider use.
 
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110628/AUTO01/106280401/LaHood-on-2025-fuel-standar- ds---We-want-to-get-it-right-#ixzz1QgAb9Zi1

#517 of 560 56 translation by benjaminh

Jun 29, 2011 (8:33 am)

56 is a very high standard. But, keep in mind that 56 would be as calculated in 1975, which was more of a steady state driving at slower speeds without AC. I'm not sure, but I think in today's numbers a 56 would be more like a 46. And given that we already have a Hyundai Elantra that gets 40 mpg on the highway here in 2012, getting to 46 in a dozen years doesn't seem that bad....

#518 of 560 getting to 56 by benjaminh

Jun 29, 2011 (9:12 am)

But getting to 56 is harder than I made it sound. 56 is an average for all companies combined, and for cars and trucks combined. What this probably translates into is a standard of c.60 for cars and c. 45 for trucks/suvs. In today's numbers that would be maybe 50 for cars and 35 for trucks. Tough, but doable, I think.

#519 of 560 getting to 56 by benjaminh

Jun 29, 2011 (11:34 am)

I can pretty much already see how this could be done, and I imagine most manufacturers can too. It's a tough standard requiring many hundreds of billions of dollars to completely re-engineer every vehicle, but I think it could be done.
 
First, as mentioned 56 by the 1975 CAFE standard is really more like 45 by today's mpg numbers.
 
Take a car just slightly larger than the Mazda2, put a 1.0 liter skyactiv engine in it plus hybrid engine, etc., and you're looking at a car that gets c. 65 mpg by today's numbers. That translates into c. 80 mpg when it comes to CAFE. With manufacturers putting millions of those cars out it will then be possible to still make a midsize to large sedan (Honda Accord etc.) vehicle that's slightly smaller than today's model, which by that time will itself be getting maybe 35 mpg by today's numbers. These two kinds of cars (plus many others in between) will balance out to get to the CAFE number suggested by 2025.
 
You'll still even have room for some large trucks, SUVs and large luxury sedans. They will likely be powered by large 4s or small 6s that get strong mpg.
 
I may be the only one here, but I think this CAFE goal is good. It might help get OPEC off our back somewhat. It should also moderate fuel prices, and might even keep them more or less stabilized at $4-7 a gallon or so in real terms for the next 20 years, rather than allowing prices to skyrocket to $10 or more.
 
By real terms I mean that in 2025 gas may be c.$8 bucks a gallon, but adjusting for inflation it'll be more like 5 or 6 in today's dollars.

#520 of 560 Cafe chat by steve_ HOST

Jul 25, 2011 (3:06 pm)

There's going to be a live chat Tuesday (7/26/2011) at noon Eastern at http://bit.ly/njcjbG with the Union of Concerned Scientists, National Automobile Dealers Association and Edmunds.com re: fuel economy issues such as CAFE.

Messages Page 52 of 56

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