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Automotive News & Views Has CAFE reached the end of its usefulness?
507 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2009 at 11:49 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: tpe (Jan 03, 2008 5:57 am) The more crap forced onto the auto mfg, the higher the cost to the consumer. I don't need air bags in the 2nd and third row of my SUV. Yet I am forced to have them. By the time CARB, EPA and NHTSA get through with their mandated add-ons a car weighs about 25% more than it needs to. Every time they add emissions devices to bring a vehicle closer to PZEV the gas mileage drops for that vehicle. That raises the CO2 output. Example: 2001 VW Jetta TDI rated 38 MPG under new formula 5.6 tons CO2 2005 VW Jetta TDI rated 34 MPG under new formula 6.2 tons CO2 Same car engine and transmission. with added devices to raise the emissions rating by ONE lousy point. Now it dumps .6 of a ton more CO2. And as you have stated. The Supreme court gave the EPA the right to regulate CO2. Not CARB or any other state wannabe. So when this current frivolous waste of money on suing the EPA gets to the Supreme court they will just have to reiterate that the control of CO2 is with the EPA. The last case was brought by the losers in Massachusetts. If CARB and Jerry Brown are sue happy they should sue the states of the Midwest. They have cut down most of the hardwood forests to grow corn. Or maybe go International and sue Brazil for cutting down the rain forest. When I was a kid Orange County was all orange groves. A great Carbon Sink. Now it is all paved and part of the warming problem. Plenty of opportunities for sue happy goobers.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 03, 2008 6:45 am) That's probably more true for diesels but I don't see the mpg ratings of non-diesels suffering as they've become cleaner. Have the mpg ratings for the 4 cylinder Camry or Accord gone down in the last 10 years? The Supreme court gave the EPA the right to regulate CO2. Not CARB or any other state wannabe. For one thing I believe that most of the governing should be done on the state level. Of course that's a personal opininon and some people would like to see more power shifted to the feds. As you well know CARB has been granted the unique authority to deviate from EPA and set more stringent standards. The other states are then offered the option of adopting these tougher standards. No other state was granted the authority to initiate their own standards. A federal court did grant CARB the right to regulate CO2. An appointed bureacrat overturned this decision. My guess is that if this ever gets to the Supreme Court the justices will interpret the law more in line with the federal judge than with the bureacrat. It may not get that far because there are already many in Congress that oppose the EPA's denial of the CARB waiver. If CARB and Jerry Brown are sue happy they should sue the states of the Midwest. I'm sure they realize that they have no authority over other states. They do influence other states by acting as a leader. That is what they are trying to do now. I haven't lived in CA for some time now. You make it sound like this policy is being driven by a small percentage of CA's population, the hollywood, elitist, treehuggers. I could be wrong but I find it somewhat difficult to believe that these new CARB standards don't have the support of the majority of Californians.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 03, 2008 6:45 am) We talking more tax funded hospital stays if air bags weren't common and seat belt laws weren't enforced. No emissions controls means more asthma attacks and sick people missing work. It's not a zero sum game. |
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Replying to: tpe (Jan 03, 2008 7:17 am) There is no doubt that the majority of Californians want cleaner air and will vote for propositions to that end. The problem is the hidden agenda in some of these Props are not fully known until it is passed. If you put in the proposition that the only vehicles that will be able to reach these lofty emissions goals are the size of a Corolla, do you think the proposition would pass? Just what do you think will happen if CARB gets its way on CO2? CARB and Jerry Brown need to be shot down once and for all. The Supreme Court is probably the only way it will happen. As far as the 9th district Federal court. It is a joke and gets overturned on a regular basis. Many times by the other members of the court. It has several very loose cannons sitting on that court. I know as an Alaska resident there is much resentment being stuck with that bunch a yahoos. It is far and away the most liberal court in the US. It is also the most overturned district court in the USA. Notably, the 9th Circuit accounted for both 30 percent of the cases (24 of 80) and 30 percent of the reversals (18 of 59) the Supreme Court decided by full written opinions this term. In addition, the 9th Circuit was responsible for more than a third (35%, or 8 of 23) of the High Court’s unanimous reversals that were issued by published opinions. Thus, on the whole, the 9th Circuit’s rulings accounted for more reversals this past term than all the state courts across the country combined and represented nearly half of the overturned judgments (45%) of the federal appellate courts.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 03, 2008 7:42 am) That's somewhat of an exaggeration. The numbers used by CARB will be from the NHTSA, not the EPA's numbers. I believe the Corolla already exceeds the CARB mandate. There is little doubt that by 2016 more hybrids and maybe even plug-in hybrids or EVs will be on the market that considerably exceed this new standard. This will allow some room for selling vehicles that get around 25 mpg. They probably will cost more to keep the numbers down. However if gas prices continue to rise significantly the automanufacturers will probably meet these CARB targets well ahead of schedule because the consumers will be demanding fuel efficiency.
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Replying to: tpe (Jan 03, 2008 8:24 am) I have been demanding a fuel efficient 1/2 ton PU for over 15 years. It has done very little good. I would even consider a smaller PU if the mileage gain was good enough. It is not even close to what the rest of the world is getting. So forgive my lack of optimism where any government entity is involved. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Jan 03, 2008 7:22 am) How clean is clean enough? How safe is safe enough? A Hummer ONE is a heck of a lot safer than a Prius. Just not quite as clean. You see what our man Arnold drives. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 03, 2008 8:38 am) How safe is safe enough? Ask me again in 30 years. Change is constant but progress seems awfully slow. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 03, 2008 8:38 am) Here are a couple of different reports on the report Stanford released today on global warming, and the dangers it creates for humans. http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/caganone-010908.html http://parkwayblog.blogspot.com/2008/01/stanford-report.html This second one clearly delineates that Californians are more at risk than the rest of the nation, making it appropriate that California should set special standards for itself for CO2 emissions. 5 of the 7 worst cities in the nation are apparently here in good ol' Cali, including LA, Fresno, Bakersfield, Visalia, and Sacramento. What a shocker. CO2 is clearly a culprit here...
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 03, 2008 10:03 am) He has a fleet of Hummers. He also has a prototype Hydrogen Hummer 2 for show. Ahnold in a Prius would be funny though... In what the company has called a "bold experiment," Hummer has prepared a hydrogen-powered version of its H2 SUT (sport utility truck), the H2H. The vehicle is not intended for production, and a Hummer spokesperson said yesterday in a phone interview that the company will not divulge the prototype's development cost. GM does not allow Schwarzenegger to use the "Self-Serve" lane at the hydrogen station. The company fills the tank itself, keeps the vehicle in Lake Forest, Calif. (near its engineering facilities and Quantum's offices) and requires that a GM engineer ride in the car at all times. http://www.forbes.com/2005/01/04/cx_dl_0104vow.html |
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