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Automotive News & Views Has CAFE reached the end of its usefulness?
507 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2009 at 11:49 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: boaz47 (Sep 05, 2007 9:41 am) Imagine this scenario. What if instead of a tax deduction for children and dependents there was a tax penalty for not having kids? The tax rates could be adjusted so that everyone's tax burden would end up being the same with this method but the psychology would be very different. The people without kids would be wondering why they are being penalized for this. So its easier to sell a tax break even though these breaks end up in higher tax rates for those that don't take advantage of them. So what if everyone took advantage of these tax breaks, wouldn't everyone benefit? Again, I don't see how that's possible. I wouldn't oppose tax incentives and credits for adopting fuel efficient vehicles but they need to be paid for. Since the goal is to reduce fuel consumption what would be the most logical way to pay for these tax breaks? It seems to me that they should be paid for by a fuel consumption tax. That would represent the carrot and stick approach.
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Replying to: tpe (Sep 05, 2007 11:07 am) For most of CAFE's life it did nothing to improve fuel consumption. To even say that without CAFE fuel consumption would have been even higher is pure speculation. Fuel consumption average dropped slightly for the first few years and then started to flatten and then rise every year till people started realizing that CAFE was a waste or time. If a private business took this long to produce results it would have been bankrupt several times over.
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Replying to: boaz47 (Sep 05, 2007 11:55 am) |
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You don't think the politicians know that all eyes turn accusingly to them every time the price of gas spikes? That's the reason we have these ridiculous "investigations" into "price gouging" every year or two, all of which inevitably come to naught, and is the reason there will continue to be some kind of government intervention into fuel efficiency. And boaz, my simple response to your proposed system of market forces solving this problem is to point out that consumers are selfish and fairly uninformed on long-term costs of vehicle ownership, the U.S. has a massive effort in place to keep oil prices artificially low, and fuel efficiency won't sell itself to the average American buyer enough to make the U.S. a good global neighbor with regard to oil consumption. |
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Replying to: nippononly (Sep 06, 2007 10:35 pm)
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Replying to: boaz47 (Sep 07, 2007 4:28 pm) That is exactly right. I know several people that buy big trucks to get the diesel engine. It costs more but has a lot more to offer including better mileage than any 1/2 ton PU. In CA no smog checks on those big diesels. First thing they do is head to the muffler shop and strip all the factory crap off and get straight exhaust. VW built the Touareg V10 diesel heavy enough to be sold in CA. A bit overkill but you don't have to put up with the ignorance in Sacramento. |
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Replying to: boaz47 (Sep 07, 2007 4:28 pm)  I will say it again: consumers won't ever spend one thin dime more to pay for something that is good for everyone else, they will only pay more if it is better for themselves. That is why at a societal level, the only reforms we will initiate successfully are the ones we institute at the government level. Your idea of letting market forces solve the problem would only work if pollution in the air including CO2 emissions were assigned a dollar value commensurate with the harm it is causing, then that cost in dollars were spread out and charged equally to all licensed drivers who own a vehicle. Since that is clearly NOT the system, market forces will not help us out of this predicament. Hey, didja notice the German foreign minister was here this week to praise California for taking steps to stem global warming, and was suggesting California join the EU coalition of countries trying to fight the problem? Oh, and did you notice where else he stopped to congratulate folks in this country on their efforts (nowhere)?!
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Replying to: nippononly (Sep 07, 2007 8:00 pm) You concern for "other people" is fine if your legislation effects what those other people do as well. We discovered that particulants were a health hazard yeas ago and in fact banned diesel sales of new vehicles in California for 4 years. Who else cared? We have had higher cost for Gas because of the cleaner fuel we require in this state for years. Who else cares? More states didn't and hardly any other country does. Sure, over a very long period of time government action may show some sign of change but in our case and CAFE how long is long enough? Consumer demand can change Iphone in a matter of month. Government intervention takes years to do what the market can do in months. we may both want the same thing but our road to get there is different. I believe people want better fuel mileage and cleaner cars. But once the government sets a standard we as a society seem to figure that standard is good enough and the manufacturer has no incentive to do better. And don't even get me started on CARB and the wasted years spent on EV research only to get just exactly what was offered to them in the very beginning of the effort. Maybe the greatest failure was the mandate to have a percentage of every fleet to have some zero pollution vehicles by 2000 was it? Only to forget the whole thing and except hybrids as the solution. I guess I am just tired of government smoke and mirrors. |
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Replying to: gagrice (May 11, 2007 7:20 am)  -Rocky
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Replying to: rockylee (Oct 11, 2007 5:09 pm) 
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