Last post on Sep 08, 2007 at 11:04 AM
You are in the Honda S2000
What is this discussion about?
Honda S2000, Nissan 350Z, Coupe, Convertible
#84 of 183 Re: Z Vs. s2k [habitat1]
May 13, 2007 (1:07 pm)
Enjoyed your comments about the S2000 and the inclusion of the 911S in the discussion. As you may remember from my participation on this forum several months ago, I own a 2006
997S and have an eye on the S2000. My interest in the S2000 has increased since I learned it's being discontinued. The
attractive current price has stimulated my appetite as well. I contacted several dealers last week and the lowest quote I got was $29,000, including handling charges. I'm almost certain I could get it for $28,800 or so.
I was planning on buying a 2008 997 GT3, but I'm being discouraged by the surprisingly low 997S trade-in value. Further, a cooperating dealer who agreed to process a privately-sold deal is unwilling to guarantee that I will get a GT3. Thus it seems that the most likely scenario would be to place a deposit on several dealerships, wait until my time comes (Spring 2008) or a standing allocation is cancelled, and accept a massive depreciation hit at transaction time. In short, getting a GT3 is a traumatic experience in a decisively sellers market situation for someone who is neither track-bound nor wealthy. So I'm thinking about waiting for a year or so until the market settles. Assuming, of course, that the 2009 GT3 will be produced.
I love my 7,500 miles CarreraS and am happy to keep it for a couple of years, until the warranty expires. In the interim, a Honda S2000 would be an economically feasible track toy for my forthcoming retirement days. Indeed, if I really love it, I may keep it for life. Again, in a year or two, the current euphoria for the GT3 may have subsided or perhaps the 2009 CarreraS would be close enough to today's GT3, performance-wise In short, at current prices, the classy and vanishing S2000 seems to be a tempting and painless "time-buying" alternative. I'll be keeping my stick shift 2005 Volvo S60 as a winter-backup.
I would welcome your thoughts (as well as other's)about my plan. Thanks!
#86 of 183 Re: Z Vs. s2k [fedlawman]
May 13, 2007 (5:14 pm)
Thanks a lot for the info. Yes, I was aware of the article and indeed bought the MT June issue because of it. At any rate, I just viewed the videos once again and the GT3 in particular brought back a torrent of adolescence emotions.
This is pure therapy for an old person.
Thanks again and take care.
#87 of 183 Re: Z Vs. s2k [fedlawman]
May 13, 2007 (7:16 pm)
That MT test was about the most worthless comparo I've ever seen! How can you compare a 20g honda civic over cars costing several hundred thousand? C/D did a more realistic comparo in a similar vain a few months back where they broke all the cars into categories but still compared the segments too.
#88 of 183 Re: Z Vs. s2k [donquixote30]
May 13, 2007 (9:10 pm)
Funny, I asked my dealer about the GT3 when I was in for service a couple of months ago. His response was "how many times have you been to the Porsche (or other) Performance Driving School?". It is his opinion that, unless you really learn how to drive a 911 from professionals, that 97% of most drivers would not be able to push a 997 C2S to it's limits. And only a small fraction of the other 3% could handle a GT3. He has received three (3) GT3's so far and actually talked one of the buyers out of taking the car because they "wouldn't have known how to use it". He sold him a 911 Turbo instead, which is more civilized and forgiving.
I'm curious as to what you consider "massive depreciation". I bought my 2005 S Cab with an MSRP of $102k+ for $92k in September 2005. Today, 19 months and 13.6k miles later, I think I could sell it privately for close to $80k. Maybe I'm being optimistic, but there are still people in the DC area that think a $3k discount on a new 911 is a good deal, and would be looking at a 2007 MSRP of over $105k for a comparably equiped car.
As I've exhibited, I'm a big fan of the S2000. That said, it would be a little tough going back to one from a 911S. Especially for me, because I'd be trading a "family car" for a two seater in the eyes of my daughters. Actually, same holds true for the 2-seat GT3. So neither of those are realistic temptations for me.
Good luck with whatever you decide. But if you do go for the GT3, I would budget an extra $6k for a couple of sessions at the Porsche driving school. I'll join you for one of them.
#89 of 183 Re: Z Vs. s2k [dat2]
May 14, 2007 (5:33 am)
Well, I didn't take much stock in all the computer graphs they published, but I would hardly call it worthless. The detailed descriptions of how the cars feel on the road and track (ride, turn-in, power, etc.) was interesting, and the lap times did make for an interesting comparison.
The videos on the website are also entertaining.
#90 of 183 Re: Z Vs. s2k [habitat1]
May 14, 2007 (7:36 pm)
Thanks for your reply. Correct, after driving a 997S, it would be difficult to be satisfied with almost anything else. I have experienced that already. However, I enjoy going back and forth from one vehicle to another and experience contrasting design quality and dynamic character. Further, I view the S2000 as a suitable and relatively economical track-training tool.
By "massive depreciation" I mean a current 22% hit on a 2006 997S delivered on August, 2005. Your case is a bit different, you bought a 2005 convertible in September, after the 2006s 997S began to arrive. As a result of these timing differences, I got only a 2 1/3% discount as oppossed to your 10% discount. Naturally, I'm impacted more dramatically than you do.
Insofar as the 997 GT3 is concerned, it is not my intention to push it even close to its limits but rather to experience its character (sound, purity of feedback, power/torque, etc.)on both street and track environments. As you know, not every GT3 owner is necessarily a
hard core, track-oriented person.
I'm still undecided with respect to buying a 2007 S2000. However, I probably will. The lowest quote I have received is $29,500.
#91 of 183 Re: Z Vs. s2k [donquixote30]
May 16, 2007 (2:41 pm)
"I'm still undecided with respect to buying a 2007 S2000. However, I probably will. The lowest quote I have received is $29,500."
I paid $32,000 for a 2002 S2000 in November 2001 and thought I got a heck of a deal. The Edmunds "TMV" at the time was $36,800, $4,000 OVER MSRP. So $29,500 seems like a no-brainer, if you like the car.
"As you know, not every GT3 owner is necessarily a
hard core, track-oriented person."
I would have said that about "regular" 911's and even Turbos, but the GT3 does tend to appeal to the more hard core drivers. According to my dealer, the settings on the PASM are dialed up a notch or two on the GT3, making for a jolting ride over rough streets even in the "regular" mode. "Sport" mode can be downright painful, except on a track or very smooth highway. I am pretty sure the GT3 would be a hoot to drive - for all the reasons you cited (especially the 8,400 rpm redline)- but I doubt I'd have driven it daily the way I do my 911S. As long as the buyer is aware of that, it's their money. But it's not exactly an easy car to find to test drive. Every one of the dealers I've asked has sold out their allocation way in advance and they only way to get a test drive is to bribe an existing owner.
#92 of 183 Re: Z Vs. s2k [habitat1]
May 16, 2007 (5:20 pm)
Yesterday I gave a deposit for a new 2007 S2000. I'll sign up the papers tomorrow. I got it for $29,300. As you have noticed, the current supply appears to be dwindling and I didn't want to continue searching at the risk of missing the opportunity to buy a new one in the silverstone/black interior combination I wanted.
By the way, if you are interested in driving a 997 GT3, I would suggest joining Rennlist. The core 997 GT3 forum participants are very committed to their beloved track toy and I have no doubt would let you drive their GT3s. Indeed I have been invited to drive a couple of them without solicitation. These enthusiasts are very friendly, extremely knowledgeable about their sport, and have a great sense of humor to boot.
#93 of 183 Re: Z Vs. s2k [donquixote30]
May 17, 2007 (5:28 am)
Where are you located? There is a dealership here in town that is selling their S2000 at $28,500 (and they have two reds and two silverstones). Let me know if you are interested in the dealership name and who to contact to get this price. This dealership does have the Presidents Award and are top notch dealer (but of course you do have to watch the numbres at any dealer so don't get in with blind faith that they wont fudge somethinge).