Last post on Sep 08, 2007 at 11:04 AM
You are in the Honda S2000
What is this discussion about?
Honda S2000, Nissan 350Z, Coupe, Convertible
#124 of 183 Re: Test Drove then bought the Z [dadsz]
May 31, 2007 (4:47 pm)
"But the cost for what you get is influenced by the Honda mystique in my opinion."
"Honda mystique"? That's pretty funny.
In my opinion, the $30,000 S2000 is the deal of the century, price wise, if what you want is a serious sports car with world class driving dynamics and handling. It compares favorably with the base Boxster at $50k+ and bests both the Z4 and SLK350, both of which are $45k+. The closest thing to an S2000 in driving experience is a Lotus Elise, which is even less civilized for well over $40k.
The 350Z Roadster does indeed offer more amenities and a more "comfortable" touring style ride. But at 600+ lbs more than the S2000 and Boxster, it can't come close to the S2000 and Boxster in agility and driving dynamics. It really is more of a GT car than a sports car, which is perfectly fine, if that's what you want.
Back to the "mystique". Honda has it? I don't really think so. I bought an S2000 in 2001 because it was a better car than the mystique-laden base Boxster at the time. Every car that the S2000 competes with has more "mystique". Honda delivers the goods with the S2000 and, in spite of being nearly 8 years old, shows just how well you can do when you set out to build a sports car from the ground up. Something that no other Japanese manufacturer has done in the last decade, period.
I suspect I could get accused of succumbing to the "mystique" of Porsche with my purchase of a 911S Cab. But I never thought I'd hear that about a Honda.
#125 of 183 Re: Test Drove then bought the Z [habitat1]
May 31, 2007 (6:38 pm)
Does mystique = "What is that?"
I've filled up my tank 3 times, and 2 of the times, I've been asked, "What kind of car is that?" I reply with, "It's a Honda S2000."
Their response: "That's a Honda?"
I love it!
#126 of 183 Re: Test Drove then bought the Z [habitat1]
Jun 01, 2007 (7:05 am)
Honda Mystique = most reliable cars built so you pay for the quality reputation...
Although it appears that in some areas that the S is selling for $2,000 under invoice as dealers try to sell their 2006s before the new 2008 redesign hits the lots. So apparently, mystique only goes so far....
I'd up the ante to jealousy for a Porsche! Mystique doesn't quite get you there with a Porche 911S Cab.... (As in "I wish I had one of those!" and "Holy #$! That's the car I'm going to buy when I get rich.")
Enjoy your car! It's awesome baby... Dicky V mystique does not apply.
#127 of 183 Re: Test Drove then bought the Z [accelerator]
Jun 01, 2007 (7:07 am)
Yep, there's that too! Great feeling isn't it?
#128 of 183 S2000 torque?
Jun 03, 2007 (12:56 pm)
Would any S owners (or Z owners, or anyone else) care to enlighten me on how well the S works as a daily driver? My current car is a 2000 Celica GTS, which I have been driving every day for the past seven years. So, I know a thing or two about peaky engines and all that.
I promised myself to get something with more torque next time, so I've been test driving larger and heavier cars, but driving the S was way more involving and fun than anything else I've tried lately. I'm estimating it has 30-40 ft-lbs more torque to work with between 3000-6000rpms compared to the Celica, and an extra 300 lbs of weight to haul around. It felt quicker through traffic according to my butt-o-meter. Not as grunty as the Z, for sure. But for the same price, I get a drop top. Advice, anyone?
#129 of 183 Re: S2000 torque? [tgeen]
Jun 03, 2007 (2:50 pm)
If you want a sports car with more torque than you should test drive a Z! And when you miss the high rpms...the Z has a 7500 redline so it's got plenty up top too, the best of both worlds.
#130 of 183 Re: S2000 torque? [tgeen]
Jun 04, 2007 (4:26 am)
I did not find the S2000's 162 ft lbs of torque to hinder its use/enjoyment as a daily driver, when I had a 2002 model for 2.5 years and 18,000 miles.
Frankly, a bigger issue was the noise level and overall comfort with the top up. I could handle it from the driver's seat, my wife did not like it from the passenger seat. If you will be doing a lot of daily driving with the top up, you may want to test drive it under those conditions.
Also, do not spend too much time with your calculator doing torque-per-pound or other such calculations. It's performance that counts. In spite of a 100+ ft-lb advantage on paper, the S2000 and 350Z are essentially identical in actual (full throttle) acceleration. Around town, at 50% throttle, the Z's low end torque offers a bit better acceleration, but you will be giving up point and shoot handling and better fuel economy with the S. It's very much a subjective choice.
Lastly, by comparison, my 911S "only" has a 28 ft-lb advantage over the 350Z, but at around 4 seconds 0-60, is in a completely different league, performance wise. I'm sure there is a statistical way to figure out why some ft-lbs of torque do more than others, but if you can do that, start a hedge fund, make billions, and buy a Ferrari 599. No torque issue there.
#131 of 183 Re: S2000 torque? [tgeen]
Jun 04, 2007 (5:13 am)
We own a 2006 S2000 and other Honda & Acura cars. I suggest you test drive the S2000 and the Z, or whatever you are comparing, over a portion of your daily commute. When I walk into the garage every morning, I start smiling in anticipation of the morning commute in the S2000 with top down. At about half way to work, I try to convince myself to continue to work vs. taking off on a longer commute due to the enjoyment of driving the S2000. For the drive home, the same process happens and I try to add a grocery stop or other stop to lengthen the drive. All the while at 23 mpg to 30 mpg (depends on routes taken). Does the S2000 have less torque? May have, but driving it is like riding prior motorcycles, with two wheels added and a top. Any S2000 drive is very enjoyable due to the 6 speed transmission matched to the engine. Does the S2000 have less room? Yes, but my wife does not travel with me to work. Can you carry groceries for a family of 4 or 5 in the trunk? No (drive your other car). Will the car be a 'collector's item'? I think so for sports car enthusiasts, because it is pure fun to drive, as a sports car should be. Good luck with your decision. Life is short. Enjoy every day.
#132 of 183 Re: S2000 torque? [tgeen]
Jun 04, 2007 (5:35 am)
I have to agree with everything jkgreer2 had to say, except I spent $150 in groceries (9 plastic bags) and I was able to get it all in the trunk, albeit it was tight. I use my S2000 as a daily driver with the first 15 minutes in stop-n-go traffic and the remaining 25-35 minutes of my morning commute on a open highway (mostly straight). This morning was a perfect 76. I'm not on a lot of twisties but I still enjoy every minute of the commute. The shifting in the rush-hour is effortless while on the open road is exhilarating. The clutch is smooth. Like jkgreer2, my wife doesn't go to work with me either, which might be why we are still married!
The things you should also consider are your environment (will you get enough time to enjoy the car in your climate), insurance cost (it is high to insure), etc. Would you rather have some of the creature comforts the Z offers or the oneness you feel with the S2000? Do you want a unique car (S2000) or one you see everywhere (350z)? I love being at an intersection and dropping the top. I imagine people looking at me and wishing they had my carefree life. And no, I don't have a carefree life, the S2000 just lets me pretend like I do and allows me to enjoy life; for me, that is priceless.
This is the first car I can see myself literally driving till 100k or even 200k miles. I've never been able to say that about any car I've owned (in 18 years of driving, this is my 11th vehicle). I've had a mustang GT and while the acceleration was fun, I'm not lacking/missing any fun by the driving the S2000.
#133 of 183 Re: S2000 torque? [tgeen]
Jun 04, 2007 (7:43 am)
I think you are on to something with the butt-o-meter. To take that idea a step further, you also need to consider the mass of the vehicle. Too much mass will mask good torque numbers.
Look at these and you will see why I just ordered the Solstice.
Solstice GXP/Sky Redline = 11.4 lbs/lb-ft
Z350 = 13.4 lbs/lb-ft
S2000 = 17.6 lbs/lb-ft
The Sol will flat put you deep into you seat.
I also went with the auto. The torque converter gives you another 2.0 torque multiplication over the gears by themselves.