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Sedans Acura TL Acura RL vs. Acura TL
162 messages, Last post on Jul 29, 2008 at 6:24 AM
You are in the Acura TL Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
I am in the processing of trading my ES in for a type S 07 M.T. Now, during the negotiation processing, i was asking the sales person about break-in period for manual. He said that for manual vehicles, they DO NOT  need to have an elaborate break-in. Just take your brand new type S out and race. I don't think this is right; i am very skeptical about his answer. What do you guys think? Please post your inputs. thanks
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Replying to: richbf2 (Dec 21, 2006 9:37 am) For the first 800-1,000 miles: Do not exceed 4,000 rpms. Avoid full throttle acceleration. However, do not "lug" the engine either and shift into a higher gear too soon. Keep the "cruising" engine rpms varied between 2,200 to 2,500 on the low end and 4,000 on the upper. Avoid repeated short hops. Try to drive the car for a minimum of 10-15 minutes so that the engine oil and mechanical parts fully heat up. This helps everything expand and contract fully and "seat" properly. Unfortunately, the water temperature is NOT a good guage of this, as it heats up much quicker than the oil. No cruise control for extended drives at a constant speed / rpms. After that, you can let it rip. These are the recommendations I got from sources I trust - Porsche race team technician, Honda factory rep, BMW "Motorsport" mechanic. I applied them to my Honda S2000, Acura TL and 911S. While the TL may fall on the lower end of these other high performance engines, it's still worthy of proper break in, IMO. |
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Replying to: kennyg8 (Dec 20, 2006 4:16 pm) IMO, the RL might do better if it put more space between itself and the TL, both in attributes and price. My suggestion that Acura target the 5-series was based partly upon my selfish interests, but also upon my belief that it afford the better market opportunity. Other than BMW, the other nameplates you mentioned really aren't that "sports oriented". They are luxury and prestige oriented. So, if Acura were to upscale the RL, I would think a sports/performance oriented approach would open more market share than simply another techno-crazy luxury offering like the self parking, butt massaging Lexus. And I am a realist. The BMW 550i 6-speed represents no more than 5% of all 5-series sales. So Acura offering 6 and 8 cylinder versions, with automatic and manual transmissions, and RWD with SH-AWD optional at different price points may be the best way to cover all bases. It's been 16 years since Acura introduced the $65,000 NSX at a time when the most expensive Lexus LS400 was $40,000. They shook up the automotive industry with such a bold offering and had Ferrari and Porsche shoppers taking a close look. I may be wrong, but I think that Acura still has what it takes to be a performance oriented alternative to BMW - at least with their "flagship". If they don't do something, I believe the RL will remain a car that is very competent and a good value, just not very well embraced by the general public. If I am not mistaken, Honda sold more "specialty", limited production, hand built S2000 roadsters in the second and third year of their model run than Acura has sold "mainstream" RL sedans in theirs. Maybe I should get one of my hedge fund buddies to pony up the funds to commission a run of 5,000 "Habitat-edition" RL's: 425 hp 7,500 rpm V8's with your choice of a 6-speed manual or paddle shifting DSG with RWD. And a Porsche inspired PASM adjustable suspension. Price $60,000. No one would confuse that with a TL. And nothing would touch it in the luxury performance sedan segment short of a $90,000 BMW M5. Orders?
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Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 21, 2006 11:07 am) I also believe that the TL likely 'steals' some of the RL market by being such a great value and similar content. It offers a buy to 'almost' get RL content at a TL price. But I do not believe that is the primary reason the TL outsells the RL. One is simply marketing. The TL has been toubted as a BMW 3 chaser. The created excitement for the TL. It simply has more marketing and media attention than the RL. But further, the TL competes in the $30-40K bracket. The RL in the $40-50K bracket. There are simply more buyers in the TL bracket, and the TL did well in that market. The RL is an enigma in the $40-50K market. It is a flagship, but not marketed as a competitor to flagship (perhaps an alternative). There are fewer buyers in the bracket so the competition is fierce for those fewer buyers. With Acura's feeble marketing of the RL, these fewer buyers are naturally more likely to go with a recognized luxury product (BMW, Lexus, Audi, Jaguar and even Infinity). Although I think the RL is a tough to applaud at 50K, I think it is a no brainer in the lower 40K range. Problem is, people just don't KNOW the RL should be on the list to compare. When I look at the efforts to market the Honda LEGEND in the world market, it appears Honda has truely made attempts to market and educate buyers of the LEGEND's attributes (especially SHAWD). And looking at this car selling worldwide, they may actually be achieving the sales totals they desire. But as to why the RL is such an enigma in the US may be that the US (and ACURA corporate) have set higher expectations for US sales then what Honda has set for global sales expectations. |
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Replying to: tamparl (Dec 21, 2006 2:48 pm) Although I'm not sure Acura would want to hear that the "lower $40k" price range is where they have to price the RL to be a market success. It begs the question of "why bother" when the TL-S is already in the high $30k range. I still think there is room out there for a $50-$60k Acura flagship. I have plenty of friends and associates that are in that target market, but find Infiniti to be too funky, Lexus to be too stodgy. They end up in BMW, Mercedes or Audi but could easily be drawn to the Acura brand. |
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Replying to: tamparl (Dec 21, 2006 2:48 pm) Although I bring home a nice chunk of bacon, I would never in a million years consider spending $50K on a car. It's a depreciating asset. So for me, the value proposition of a fine machine like the RL becomes compelling in the low $40s, yet irrelevant above that price point. No car, present or future, would tempt me to drop $50 large. I have three kids to put through college, among them two daughters who'll need to be married off. Plus I've been promising my low-maintenance wife a new kitchen for 10 years and she is finally going to collect. And though my first cars were muscle-bound V-8s (an ugly brown 1969 GTO, wrapped around a telephone pole one snowy night, replaced by a Boss Orange 1969 AMX), I am by now sufficiently "green" that I would never consider a V-8. In fact, the one thing that bugs me about the RL vs. the TL is its 20% greater thirst for Chevron Supreme. Perhaps I am an enigma--but there are millions out there like me. More of them should be driving Acuras instead of having their butts massaged by an overpriced Toyota! Acura's marketing department needs to figure this out. |
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Replying to: acurat (Dec 21, 2006 6:59 pm) O.K., let me take you back a bit to make my point, which I'd be very interested in your response to. It's December 22, 1993. The 1994 Acura Legend GS Sedan that you are "lusting" after is sitting right there on the showroom floor. Actually, there are two of them. One's an automatic and one's a 6-speed manual transmission. 3.2 liter V6, 230 hp, FWD. Bluetooth - what's that? Navigation - what's that? .... Base MSRP for either, $41,495. Take your pick. _________________________________________________________ Flash forward 13 years: "So for me, the value proposition of a fine machine like the RL becomes compelling in the low $40s, yet irrelevant above that price point. No car, present or future, would tempt me to drop $50 large. I have three kids to put through college, among them two daughters who'll need to be married off. Plus I've been promising my low-maintenance wife a new kitchen for 10 years and she is finally going to collect." I sincerely applaud your prudence and would never suggest that someone spend more on a car than they are comfortable with. However, it's now 2006/7, 13 years since the FWD 6-cylinder Legend GS sold for "the low 40's". The LS400 sold for $50k at that time. If you just inflated that Legend GS price at a nominal 3% per year, it's the equivalent of a $61,000 price tag today. And, coincidentally, the LS460 now runs around $70k. It's wonderful to think that one can get a 2006 RL with 300hp, SH-AWD, and techno do-dads out the wazoo for hardly any more money than what they would have paid for the 1994 Legend GS sedan. But, speaking as someone who would like to see Acura around for another 13 years, I sincerely believe they need to reclaim a more upscale position in the market, at least with their "flagship". If a $55,000-60,000 400+hp V-8 RWD Legend GS is not within your comfort zone, then you still have one hell of a good deal in a $35k TL to choose from. Which, by the way, in every single way is a far superior car, performance and luxury wise, than the 1994 $41k Legend GS that you lusted after. P.S. Check out the price of that Sub Zero today compared to when your wife started asking for it 10 years ago. No real improvements, but at least a 50% higher price. Too bad Acura doesn't make refrigerators. 
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Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 22, 2006 6:22 am) Your economic argument is correct and with the assumption of 3% inflation even a tad conservative. Although I checked your math on my trusty HP 12C--another example of 1980s technology that has gotten way more affordable--and got a present value of $73,426 for a $50K price tag after 13 years at 3%. Of course that only strengthens your argument. (I had a rich GF who drove a Legend when I was in school in the late '80s...didn't realize until now just HOW rich!)  That said, the value equation for all sorts of consumer goods, especially cars and electronics, has shifted dramatically over the decades. You just get more for your money. Moore's Law and all that. Currency fluctuations and consumer interest rates also play into the affordability question. The bigger marketing issue for Acura is how to differentiate themselves from Honda in the way that Lexus (and to a lesser degree, Infiniti) has done. They clearly do need a more upscale positioning to compete for the trophy-car dollar. The other issue is that of branding of individual models. I think that throwing away the legend that underlies the Legend in favor of a bland alphanumeric was not a good move, and it is entirely reversible. The TL was the best car I'd ever owned, but now it's a case of been there, done that. I'm happy to give you a shot at a $55-60K V-8 Legend as long as they keep offering a sturdy and high-tech V-6 beauty in the $40s for me. I do gloat secretly when I pass by LS460 owners, knowing I got 95% of what they have for $25-30K less. And more subtle, enduring exterior styling to boot. And about that Sub-Zero--have you priced kitchen cabinets lately?? 
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Replying to: acurat (Dec 21, 2006 6:59 pm) But I think we are the minority of the buying public. And I think Acura may rely just too much that it's buyers will be as dilligent as we were in our purchase decision. Which is why I think Acura needs to market better and get the word out on how good the RL is, as we had to find out, with our own due dilligence. Lucky for Acura we searched so. But even as prudent i was in my decision to trade from my TL to the RL I can tell you how marketing affected me. I never drove the RL when I bought my TL. Simply put, they looked similar on paper and not enough intrigued me to justify the cost differential. Therefore I never drove the RL and just bought the TL. Some missed expectations with the TL and then the low 40K price point on the RL enticed me to drive the RL. I was so pleased with the RL over my TL, I likely would have bought it instead of the TL in the 1st place....when it sold for 50K! Taking this a step further. Take an Acura RL and an Acura LEGEND side by side (same car / generation)....I would have looked at the LEGEND 1st. And to be totally truthful, when I speak to my overseas associates, I tell them I have a Honda LEGEND. The IMMEDIATELY recognize what car I have. When I tell family, friends, and AMERICAN associates I have an Acura RL, they recognize the Acura brand, but have no idea which model it is. I presonally hate the letter naming conventions used by Acura. With Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Jaguar etc, the general public does not care what model it is as long as it is a Mercedes or BMW, etc. But I do not believe that philosophy supports Acura. As much as I love my RL, I still would PREFER to own an Acura LEGEND over an Acura RL. And as mentioned prior, I even prefer Honda LEGEND over Acura RL. Marketing is a funny, fickle thing.
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Replying to: tamparl (Dec 22, 2006 12:54 pm) Have you EVER seen a television ad for the Honda S2000? It is a specialty car that took on the $50k Porsche Boxster and, by many enthusiasts measures, won. I believe that most consumers know about the RL and certainly all enthusiasts know about the S2000. The RL delivers a lot of value, for sure, but fell short of some expectations on performance. The Honda S2000 overdelivered. That's how I see it.
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