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Hatchbacks Honda Fit Honda Fit
4728 messages, Last post on Nov 06, 2009 at 4:57 AM
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Replying to: micweb (Oct 07, 2009 2:18 pm) Yeah, the WRX pushes the handling envelope quite a bit over the base Impreza. It has got stiffer suspension all around (without being harsh), beefier stabilizer bars front and rear, significantly more quicker steering with better feel, wider and lower profile tires, Turbo high-revving DOHC boxer engine and a variety of other things that make it feel like a totally different car than the base Impreza. The STI pushes the chasm even wider. It has even more stiffer (and different) suspension around and differs from the WRX and other Imprezas in having Aluminium suspension bits and also different geometry for the front struts. Unlike the rest of the Imprezas (including the WRX) who have open differentials in the front/rear, the STI has a mechanical Helical differential in the front and a Torque-sensing (torsen) differential in the rear. Also, unlike the rest of the manual-transmissioned Subarus (including the WRX and Legacy GT), who employ a cheaper viscous coupling type center differential, the STI employs a beefy mechanical Planetary-gear-based Center Differential that operates hand-in-hand with electronically controlled but hydraulically actuated Transfer clutches and drives with a majority of the power/torque going to the rear wheels (but can swiftly transfer more to the front - or the sides - if conditions require it). Of course the 6-speed of the STI is WAY more beefier and can take WAY more power than comes stock, unlike the less able WRX transmissions or even the daintier 6-speed employed in the Legacy GT. The 4-piston brembo brakes and dual-piston brembos that the STI employs in the front and rear are WAY more beefier and WAY more capable than the ones that come with the WRX, with larger and more denser rotors that can absorb a LOT more heat to maintain the braking efficacy for longer. Of course that also means that the wheels have to be larger and wider in the STI (18x8.5 vs 17x7 of the WRX) to accomodate the larger brakes.....along with 245mm wide tires vs 225 of the WRX. The HIDs that the STI gets (over all other Imprezas) is just an additional aside. People mistakenly think the difference between the WRX and the STI is a little bit of extra power in the STI but the reality is entirely different. The STI stands alone, and all other Subarus (including the WRX) stands separate from it. Being a cheapskate and intending to live a long time, I think you made a better choice going with the '09 Fit. But see if you don't eventually come around to agreeing with me that stability control isn't just the wave of the future, it's at least as essential as power windows. I think my corner carving abilities are just fine, and I never push to the point of any drifting or tire drama, but it's nice to know there is an electronic nanny to help me out if I miscalculate slightly (I realize stability control can only help so much) or hit a patch of gravel or something else slippery, like water or ice. Agreed that Honda should have included the stability control into the Fit and it is a definite plus over not having it. But having driven vehicles with and without it, I guess I don't miss it too terribly, since I just drive within the car's dynamic limits, and don't push excessively beyond it. I managed just fine with the 08 Honda Fit in Minnesota winters, even without Snow tires....and the conditions last winter was especially harsh. 
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Replying to: micweb (Oct 07, 2009 2:18 pm) We have an 09 Forester but I helped pay for my mom's Fit so I guess I'm part owner of that. 
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Replying to: aaykay (Oct 08, 2009 8:04 am) I am surprised the Fit was ok in the winter without snow tires - Consumer Reports in their tests indicated snow tire on a FWD car did equally as well as AWD with all season tires.. The thing I like about the stability control system on the Nissan Cube (and also apparently on the current edition Scion xB based on my research) is that if one wheel starts to slip on this FWD vehicle, the stability control can activate the brake only onthat slipping wheel, essentially pushing the power back to the wheel with traction - so that you get most of the benefits, at least for starting out on a slippery surface, of a limited slip differential. This is big since my friends cabin at Tahoe, like many cabins, has it's garage at the end of a driveway (downhill) and its tough trying to drive back out since the driveway gets snow plowed much less frequently than the street in front - and the street in front much less frequently than the minor highway servicing that development. Maybe Minnesota is flatter, and you didn't have to struggle up - or back out of - a sloping driveway. Still it does make you wonder why Calif requires chains at the first threat of snow, while the snow states go merrily on their way with all season tires on FWD and even RWD (small pickups etc.) vehicles.....
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Replying to: micweb (Oct 08, 2009 8:26 am) 1. I like the handling of the Fit as is--it's nimble and tossable. I don't know how aggressively the stability control on the Fit intervenes, but on other cars I've driven, it seems too aggressive in cutting back the fun factor. 2. The stability control on the '09 model is only available in combination with the navigation system. So it adds a lot to the price of the car. For 2010, stability control is available only with automatic transmission--so if I were buying now, that would be another reason not to, in my opinion, as the autobox saps a significant amount of the car's delightful responsiveness. Our Accord has traction control (not stability control). It's a plus in very limited circumstances, and has never seemed like a hindrance. But somehow the idea of stability control, regardless of how effectively it might be implemented, just seems much more invasive to me. |
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Replying to: ateixeira (Oct 08, 2009 8:16 am) But note that even though you may be able to do quite a bit of swapping between the Forester/WRX/Impreza and even between the Legacy and the Imprezas, the STI is a bit different (strange as that sounds). None of these other suspensions (including the one belonging to the WRX) will mount into the STI and vice-versa, since the front/rear geometries are different. The STI's stabilizer bars won't fit into any of the other Imprezas (mounting points are different). The STI's wheels are not swappable onto any other Impreza (or Legacy) based vehicle (totally different specs), which is because the STI has a totally different design of the hubs/axles (all other Subarus employ 5x100 speccd wheels that fit into the smaller hubs, while the STI employs different/larger sized 5x114.3 wheels/hubs and proportionately larger axles). PS: By "STI", these specs only refer to STIs after the 2004 model year. The 2004 model year STI was similar enough to the WRX to enable its wheels etc to be directly swapped onto the WRXs of that year and also every other WRX or Forester that have come since. Thus the 2004 model year STI wheels in particular, are in great demand by WRX and Forester owners, since they are forged and light, while not having the "aftermarket" look. |
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Replying to: micweb (Oct 08, 2009 8:26 am) Agreed. Put snow tires on a vehicle like the Fit and it would be well nigh unstoppable in the snows - even without stability control. In the snow, having narrower tires (like the ones in the Fit) is actually an advantage, unlike say in good weather high-performance driving where a larger contact patch provided by the wider tires, is more advantageous. This is big since my friends cabin at Tahoe, like many cabins, has it's garage at the end of a driveway (downhill) and its tough trying to drive back out since the driveway gets snow plowed much less frequently than the street in front - and the street in front much less frequently than the minor highway servicing that development. Maybe Minnesota is flatter, and you didn't have to struggle up - or back out of - a sloping driveway. Under such conditions, a Fit with snow tires would scoot right up without even blinking an eye, as long as the snow is not too deep. Snow tires are designed to remain pliable, even when the temperatures drop to negative levels and the tread pattern is designed to dig in. IMO, snow tires would be the primary factor that will help under such conditions, even though having stability control will be an added plus. Ground clearance is another factor that comes into play, since in deep snow, these vehicles simply would not have the ground clearance to go through (even if the tire is able to dig in with adequate grip), since they would just "float" in deep snow. Under such conditions, vehicles like the Subaru Outback or Tribeca or Forester with adequate ground clearance will be needed (if not an SUV). The good thing about Minnesota is that since there is a lot of snow, the infrastructure of the cities are geared to swiftly clear them out, as soon as it snows. People tend to have snow plows (hand-operated or vehicles with snow plough attachments - depending on the size of the area or driveway that need to be cleared) and thus private driveways etc are pretty quickly cleared off too. Thus deep snows through travel roads etc are not very common and a Fit (especially with snow tires) would do just fine. |
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Replying to: aaykay (Oct 08, 2009 1:38 pm) Another thing to consider when purchasing winter tires, maybe downsize your tire width and accordingly adjust the aspect ratio as contrary to popular belief, a narrower tire is better in snow than a wider tire. I run a 155/80-13 snow tire (pizza cutters) and my vehicle still performs great during wintery and colder dry conditions.
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Replying to: funktion-el (Oct 09, 2009 5:24 am)
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Replying to: stephen987 (Oct 09, 2009 5:29 am) |
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Replying to: stephen987 (Oct 09, 2009 5:29 am) Still, I wouldn't be out there unless I had snow tires - at least. |
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