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Honda Fit

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What is this discussion about? Honda Fit, Hatchback

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#4523 of 4750 Information on the 2009 Fit is on Edmunds and on Autoblog by micweb

Mar 20, 2008 (9:30 am)

Edmunds has a pretty detailed article on the 2009 Fit that that was published last fall, and still tops the Google search list (it is a good article).
 
Now the most interesting question of all has been answered by Honda - when? - and it appears that the revised Fit will come out as part of Honda's normal 2009 lineup - neither early nor late.
 
Of course with Honda some models are released a little late in the fall (the Element comes to mind) but hopefully the new Fit will be out in September.
 
This link should take you to the Edmunds article:
 
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=122688
 
This link should take you to the Autoblog New York Auto Show reveal of the 2009 Fit with the official Honda press release:
 
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/19/new-york-2008-2009-honda-fit/
 
My take on the original Fit vs. the new Fit, is that the original Fit was designed for the Asian and European "B" class cars segment, with a small displacement (1.2 or 1.3 liter) engine in mind and typical top speeds under 70. (When it got "Americanized" for us in 2007, it got the beefier 1.5 engine and can easily cruise at 80 mph - albeit at an rpm and with a razor steering response that most Americans just don't "get.") Also with young Asian male drivers in mind - in Asia a car this size is well within size requirements for typical males, while it is a little small for "super size me" Americans. (Europeans almost match us in height, if not bulk, but pure economics force the European middle class out of SUV's and into B and C - mini and subcompact - cars.)
 
The original Fit had to be built "on the cheap" to compete in the extremely competitive "B" class market. When it was brought to America, it got a longer nose so it could get the coveted 5 start driver and passenger government crash test results, and the "Good" offset rating (the highest rating) from the Insurance Institute.
 
The new Fit is bigger and better, based on the early reports. I especially like what Edmunds has to say about it: "The new suspension calibration also improves straight-line stability. On Honda's high-speed proving ground, the Fit felt as stable at 110 mph as it did at 50 mph." Let's hope Edmund's Asian corresondent got it right, because I'd love for a little more stability at 80 mph on my Fit (it's not prone to wandering or crosswinds, but does have sensitive steering that calls for more attention than a blander car).
 
I suspect Honda has had such a sales success with the first generation, that they aren't afraid of "cannibalizing" Civic sales anymore - the Fit will probably be a "super super premium" B car, compared with the Yaris which is nice but no Fit. (The Americanized Yaris I almost bought instead of my Fit had no safety gear - side air bags or side curtain or ABS - compared with the Euro version, and the interior was one full tier below the Fit.) In other words, imho, the Fit is going to become the de facto Civic hatchback, although obviously the underlying platform dimensions remain different. But if there WERE an American Civic hatchback, I'm not sure that it would excel over the next generation Fit in any category other than engine displacement and possibly, thought not assuredly, NVH (noise vibration harshness). I suspect the next gen Fit is going to be in Civic territory in terms of quietness at least in Coupe territory - the current Fit suffers only from minor wind roar, so if they can quiet down the tire noise they'll have a winner.
 
Supposedly the new Fit will be softer riding. I applaud that IF they retain the precise, great handling.
 
Finally, with horsepower bumped to 118 - MINI territory - who needs a MINI anymore from a pure functionality standpoint? With the "magic seats" and gas mileage and hopefully improved acceleration with the automatic* the next generation Fit WILL be the rightful successor to Issigioni's original vision for the MINI.
 
*My Fit manual transmission is incredibly responsive on the street and on the freeway. Very peppy. I know the road test numbers make it look slower than the Yaris or Caliber 5 speed, but I've owned both those cars and the Fit is a MUCH better real world performer. If I could get 85% of that performance with an automatic - and cruise at lower rpm - I will be really tempted to make the switch to automatic when I get the 2009 (or 2010 if I can wait that long!) so my wife can have fun with it too!
 
(Honda, shame on you for not including pre-installed "clips" to hold down the floor mats! Make sure you include them in the next generation! I see you included a "dead pedal" so surely you listen! )

#4524 of 4750 Re: Information on the 2009 Fit is on Edmunds and on Autoblog [micweb] by backy

Mar 20, 2008 (9:49 am)

Replying to: micweb (Mar 20, 2008 9:30 am)
Thanks for the link to the press release. The 2009 Fit is in my top tier of cars I'm considering for when I buy this fall; in fact I already put my name on the wait list in fall 2007!
 
FYI there is a dedicated discussion for the 2009 Fit (why it's called 2009/2010 Fit I don't know) in Town Hall:
 
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f1517a8/78

#4525 of 4750 Re: Information on the 2009 Fit is on Edmunds and on Autoblog [backy] by micweb

Mar 20, 2008 (10:24 am)

Replying to: backy (Mar 20, 2008 9:49 am)
Thanks backy. It's probably called the 2009/2010 Fit since when that thread was started, most American Fit fans were pessimistic about Honda's willingness to re-do the American Fit which had just been released to us.
 
After all, VW ships us the latest Euro Golf (Rabbit now) 2-3 years late, and its not uncommon for Honda and Toyota to unveil their new cars a year ahead of US release.
 
This time we are lucky!
 
So what do you think about VSA? Optional on the Base, standard on the Sport? It will be available in some form.
 
And pricing?
 
My guess is (setting aside currency issues) there will be about a $600 model year bump, and a $600-$1000 content bump - it depends on whether Scion can sustain their aggressive pricing on the xD and xB (their sales were down 29% last month, I believe). I think if Honda can keep a $1500 to $2500 spread between the Fit and the Civic the pricing tiers will make sense.
 
Right now the Fit is a bargain. It is cheaper than the Yaris, if you allow for content differences, and just plain cheaper than the xD.
 
BTW from what I understand the current Fit has a slightly off-ball implementation of VVT - they actually run it on a single intake valve at low rpm, and at high rpm (it is a bump, not variable, system) they open up the other intake valve. So it really behaves like an engine optimized for low end torque and fuel economy, unless you drive it hard in which case it behaves like a classic 4 valves per cylinder higher performance engine.
 
The new VVT will probably be continuously variable and not have such a jekyll/hyde personality.
 
 But squeezing 118 hp out of the 1.5 is terrific. Only a few years ago, 115 hp was the "standard" Civic power. It was on my 2003 Coupe!

#4526 of 4750 Re: Information on the 2009 Fit is on Edmunds and on Autoblog [micweb] by backy

Mar 20, 2008 (10:50 am)

Replying to: micweb (Mar 20, 2008 10:24 am)
I put some comments about the 2009 Fit press release, including availability of VSA, in the 2009/2010 Fit discussion.
 
Since they didn't say anything about VSA being a standard feature, and since that would be a huge plus worth talking about, I suspect it will be an option. I am crossing my fingers it will be a widely-available option on the base Fit, since that's the trim I'd buy.
 
Price may go up a little, but Honda held the line pretty well on the 2008 Accord when you add in the equipment that was made standard, so we'll have to see. If they raise the price too much then it starts getting into the next class up, e.g. Matrix and Elantra Touring.

#4527 of 4750 Fit Improvements Thread by plekto

Mar 20, 2008 (3:41 pm)

Here's a short list(feel free to ad to it) of things that Honda needs to address with the new Fit:
 
- Dead pedal
- Move clutch pedal at least 3-4 inches farther from the brake pedal.
- Adjustable seat height
 
- Sunroof
- Fix the left/right issues like the rear seats.(longer one is currently behind the driver, which is the passenger side in Japan. Also fix the visors and other things. Ever notice how the driver has the mirror and the passenger doesn't? That's because it's a left hand drive vehicle that was just brought over without switching stuff properly.
 
- Automatic/locking fuel latch release.
 
- Rear disc brakes on Sport model at least.
 
- Leather. If it is going to compete with a base Mini, it needs leather.
 
- Wider rear opening. Nothing sucks more than having a cavernous rear end and no way to actually FIT(heh) a box in it that's as wide as the floor because someone artistically rounded the edges of the inner rear opening to be 3-4 inches on both sides smaller. It's especially troubling since the rear hatch covers it all anyways, so it's not like it would LOOK any different outside.
 
A good example of this is the Matrix. I can fit a wider box in a *Yaris* than I can in a Matrix because of this sort of nonsense.
 
- Possibly figure out how to put a full size spare in.

#4528 of 4750 Re: Fit Improvements Thread [plekto] by micweb

Mar 20, 2008 (4:38 pm)

Replying to: plekto (Mar 20, 2008 3:41 pm)
I interlineated some comments below in bold:
 
Here's a short list(feel free to ad to it) of things that Honda needs to address with the new Fit:
  
- Dead pedal DONE
- Move clutch pedal at least 3-4 inches farther from the brake pedal. No word yet.
- Adjustable seat height I agree.
  
- Sunroof I disagree, raises price.
- Fix the left/right issues like the rear seats.(longer one is currently behind the driver, which is the passenger side in Japan. Good point, I hadn't noticed this.Also fix the visors and other things. Ever notice how the driver has the mirror and the passenger doesn't? That's because it's a left hand drive vehicle that was just brought over without switching stuff properly. My Base doesn't have ANY visor mirror.
  
- Automatic/locking fuel latch release. I agree.
  
- Rear disc brakes on Sport model at least. I disagree - cost.
  
- Leather. If it is going to compete with a base Mini, it needs leather. Disagree - available aftermarket as a dealer add-on.
  
- Wider rear opening. Nothing sucks more than having a cavernous rear end and no way to actually FIT(heh) a box in it that's as wide as the floor because someone artistically rounded the edges of the inner rear opening to be 3-4 inches on both sides smaller. It's especially troubling since the rear hatch covers it all anyways, so it's not like it would LOOK any different outside. I think it's fine, I don't see how they could change it. Too late anyway.
  
A good example of this is the Matrix. I can fit a wider box in a *Yaris* than I can in a Matrix because of this sort of nonsense.
  
- Possibly figure out how to put a full size spare in. They are actually going in the opposite direction, they apparently eliminated the spare tire to allow the floor to be lower to improve storage space. There may be storage space under the rear floor. Don't know how they are going to deal with flat tires, since injectable sealants (flat repair in a can) mess up the tire pressure monitors and tire shops hate cleaning up all the goo later.

#4529 of 4750 Re: Fit Improvements Thread [micweb] by backy

Mar 20, 2008 (6:48 pm)

Replying to: micweb (Mar 20, 2008 4:38 pm)
There was a thread awhile back, maybe in the 2009/10 Fit discussion, about the spare tire. For JDM there's no spare, but someone (jacksan maybe) noted that was for the JDM only, and for U.S. models the plan was to include a (temporary) spare tire. I really hope that's the case, vs. using something like run-flat tires or a can of sealant.
 
One bit of car trivia: if the 2009 Fit doesn't have leather available, it may be the only car offered in the U.S. with factory nav but not leather. I haven't confirmed that, but I can't think of another car with a nav option but no leather, now that the Civic offers leather.

#4530 of 4750 Re: Fit Improvements Thread [micweb] by ateixeira

Mar 21, 2008 (7:06 am)

Replying to: micweb (Mar 20, 2008 4:38 pm)
Amen on the deal pedal. Honda is finally getting it.
 
It's the first thing I check when I test drive a Honda. CR-V and Odyssey have lacked it and I just could not find a good place for my left foot.
 
I agree that leather would raise the price too much, but how much could rear disc brakes really add? Plus, if the Fit is going to be perceived as sporty (they do offer a "Sport" model), it really should get this.

#4531 of 4750 Re: Fit Improvements Thread [backy] by 719b

Mar 21, 2008 (8:12 am)

Replying to: backy (Mar 20, 2008 6:48 pm)
"I can't think of another car with a nav option but no leather, now that the Civic offers leather"
 
not sure if the scion xd nav is factory or dealer added, but they have a nav system and doesn't offer leather seats..

#4532 of 4750 Re: Fit Improvements Thread [719b] by backy

Mar 21, 2008 (8:41 am)

Replying to: 719b (Mar 21, 2008 8:12 am)
I heard an ad for Scion recently that stated that Scion has NO factory options, they are all dealer-installed. That would mean the nav on the xD is not a factory option.

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