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Sedans Honda Civic Honda Civic Si Sedan
487 messages, Last post on Sep 22, 2009 at 9:49 PM
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Replying to: steve155 (Sep 16, 2007 5:44 am) Good luck finding one with NAV. They don't make many, and the chances of a local dealer getting one in your color choice will be dicey. My dealer (in fact all of Houston) didn't have one on the lot when we decided to purchase. The dealer was able to pull up a delivery schedule list showing what cars were slated to be delivered in the Houston area (including the colors and options). They were more than willing to do a trade with another dealer if they were getting just what we wanted. Turns out they were getting a ralley red soon and no one was getting one with ralley red AND Nav. To get one with Nav, we were looking at an unspecified much longer wait. As it was we had to wait 6 weeks for ours to be delivered. One thing no one has mentioned. Don't expect to be able to get the iPod adapter. Apperently they've been pulled because once they make one, iPod does an update and they no longer work. They have no idea when/if they'll be made again. Right now we're using a Monster FM adapter with mixed results. |
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quite a comparo, sabastian you have a dilema! bascially, the pro's and con's of each car were outlined in your post, and like some posters have said, forget about what your friends say, and go for what your heart says, as cheesy as that sounds. the gti has a better powerband, the si has a better sounding engine and exahust note, the gti is def the best long distancer, the si loves the twisties, the gti less so, but it loves the freeway more, and it loves having more than just you in the car. both cars can do pretty much what the other one can, its just that they do some things the other does a bit better. i wouldn't worry too much about mkV reliability; its not up to the honda standard, but not nearly as bad as it used to be. (and then you have newer honda's which have had their issues, and suddenly they are this horrible, unreliable company!  ) the biggest deal would be maintenence. even though they are both performance vehciles and would naturally require you to eck out a bit more with regards to their more economical siblings, VW's are not cheap to maintain, even if you have no problems with yours. i like both cars for different reasons. The roadtrip going, torque whore, i-love-a-simple/classy-interior in me says gti, but the sensible, high rpm, backroads hugging honda man in me says the si.
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Replying to: sabastian (Sep 12, 2007 4:55 pm) Torque at low revs is decent for NA 2.0 4cyl, but it isn't anything like the GTI. Generally, consider that you'll need 50% more revs in the Si than the GTI to get similar performance. If you try to accelerate quickly at 3k RPM, you'll be disappointed, but at normal traffic speeds, 4-5k RPM gives decent kick and isn't *that* loud (it is loud, though). It will pull as low as 1500RPMs or so, but, well, it won't pull much and it isn't really meant to be driven with the engine that slow. I normally cruise around 2.5k-3k RPMs, which might sound high, but, seriously, the engine was meant to do it this way. It's smooth as can be imagined, and not very loud at those speeds. 6th gear is quite tall considering where the engine makes its power; you're doing 2500RPM at 55mph. Highway acceleration is economy car-like in 6th, but that's no real surprise. Drop to 5th and it's quite adequate for the majority of uses, and 3rd and 4th are geared *perfectly* for acceleration in to lower highway speeds and higher highway speeds respectively. It's enough in 6th gear that you won't need to downshift to maintain speed up large hills unless the car is loaded down. You don't need to touch vtec at all in normal driving, except for passing quickly, where you just flick it in to 2nd/3rd/4th, and you're off quite nicely. There are suspension issues, I have something similar to the popping sound that people have been speaking of, but it doesn't affect driving other than being a sound. Dealer claimed it was nothing when I took it in, I'm just waiting for a TSB or recall on it now. Overall, the Si is not a quiet car, though it is reasonable if you keep the revs down and drive normally (which is very, very difficult to do). The ride is superb for the level of handling the car offers. If you're used to VWs and Audis, the Honda will be a lot firmer, but it is extremely composed, and very comfortable. You do feel all the small bumps on the road, but only in rare circumstances are they jarring. The biggest difference for you will be in going from small turbo engines to a NA engine that'll put out about the same amount of power; if you don't rev the snot out of the Honda, it won't go very fast. It's more than adequate, mind you, but if you shift at 6000RPM, the 0-60 time in the Si is likely to be similar to a regular Civic; only when you go beyond that does the car actually become truly quick. When you're in the VTEC range, the Si feels like an insanely light vehicle that you can zip around in to your heart's content. It's a very different feel compared to the VW/Audi weight and torque. You should probably still give the Speed3 a whirl, though it might not be what you're looking for, it might still win you over. A lot of people really like them. Oh. I can start it pretty easily in 3rd gear with some careful clutch modulation going *slightly* uphill. I bet I could do it in 4th on flat or slightly downhill road, but I don't want to do that to my clutch. |
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Replying to: eldaino (Sep 17, 2007 11:59 am)  . I was recently able to drive a 2006 Si Coupe that is owned by a friend of mine, and here's a few things that I noticed... The steering is much quicker than in the GTi which makes the Si fun just to drive around town. In contrast, the GTi feels more like a "normal" car, which makes runs to the grocery store feel more...well...normal. I also found the Si to have decent pull at low revs around town. I am used to a 1994 Saab 900S (non-turbo) that had 150hp when it rolled off the assembly line many moons ago. So then, while the Si may not match the GTi for low-end grunt, it feels light and peppy next to my Saab. I loved the interior. The material quality was much better than I expected (I am used to European cars, for the most part), and while I appreciate the simple design of the GTi, the Si struck me as futuristic and interesting. The oval-shaped steering wheel was surprise that I don't think has been mentioned. The shape is subtle enough that I didn't notice it in the pictures, but felt the difference immediately. Back to the GTi, I feel that I would get bored with the its interior quickly. As for the highway ride, I can't really say much about that because I drove the Si around town and on a twisty road (where it was fantastic, by the way), but I can say that I am used to the highway ride of a '94 Saab (lots of wind and road noise, and very bumpy on a 13 year-old suspension). There were several instances where I looked at the speedo in the Si and realized that I was going much faster than I thought, which is a sign of a car that is fairly calm at high speeds. I do take some long trips on which a GTi may be better, but compared to what I'm used to, I think the Si would be fine. The GTi still has some pluses though: I know it may sound silly, but a draw for me with the GTi is the fact that it has xenon headlamps, which the Si does not. I'm also curious about the DSG. I am used to driving manuals and have always enjoyed having a clutch and shifter, but I am somehow drawn to the paddle-shifting. Has anyone tried this who is used to a manual? Do you think I would miss the clutch? Also, does anyone know if you can install xenon-type bulbs in the Si? I notice that many production cars have these types of bulbs (Older Acura TL's, Escalade, Navigator, etc.)? Thanks for all your help everyone!
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Replying to: sabastian (Sep 19, 2007 8:24 am) |
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Replying to: sabastian (Sep 19, 2007 8:24 am) the steering is lighting fast on the si, plus, despite the torque disadvantage, it weighs significantly less than the gti, hence the nimbleness. the gti has a great interior, but just like my rabbit, its a bit stark, and you will tire of it more quickly. |
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Replying to: eldaino (Sep 20, 2007 7:30 am) While the Si represents better value over the GTi, has quicker steering, and the promise of Honda reliability, I think I'm going to have to go with the GTi. Here's why...I've always been a fan of European simplicity and class, and the GTi has that in spades. The interior is not as interesting as the Si, but it has lots of little touches that make it feel special (guages, flat-bottom wheel, plaid seats). I also am a fan of the GTi's more usable power band and the DSG gearbox. Sure, it doesn't have the handling of the Si, but it still likes to have a play. Finally, I've always been a hatchback fan (current car is a Saab 900), and I think I would have a tough time adjusting to a sedan-type car. My next step is to look for an '07 GTi that a dealer wants to unload to make room for the '08's. Thanks for all your help...sorry I decided to go against the Honda. I still think the Si is a great car, and I recognize that it is better than the GTi at many things, but for my situation and tastes, the GTi wins.
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Replying to: sabastian (Sep 21, 2007 8:31 am) I bought an '07 Si Sedan after test-driving the GTI and Mini Cooper S. The Mini is definitely the sports car of the bunch. It feels the quickest, has ample power everywhere on the tach, has heavy, quick, direct steering, and has amazing handling. The ride is stiff but not unreasonable. The interior is just too quirky for me (the turn signals would drive me insane very quickly), and in the end I couldn't justify a 2-door with a tiny, tiny back seat. The GTI feels the most "mature". It has a very refined interior, comfy seats, and lots of interior space. I didn't find the ride or noise levels to be that different from the Si (unless you're talking about an Si above 6K rpms, which is a different story...). The steering feels well-weighted and direct, but distinctly slower than the Si. Then there's VW reliability. After 50K miles, who knows how often the GTI will be in the shop? The Si has everything I was looking for and is several thousand less than a comparably-equipped Mini or GTI. It has very quick, direct steering. The effort is a touch lighter than the others, but still offers plenty of road feel. It corners very flat and has ample grip (and I have the all-seasons). The ride is pretty firm (though I wouldn't say "harsh", but on long road trips I'd probably opt for our Passat wagon. It isn't the quietest car on the road (you definitely hear the exhaust note even at low rpms), but it's liveable. I actually like the interior, including the gauge setup. I think it's more legible than the GTI (and WAY better than the Cooper). The seats are the most comfortable of the three, in my opinion (though I wouldn't mind adjustable lumbar support...) and really hug you in the turns. The trunk is quite roomy, and the back seat is perfectly fine. The shifter has the shortest throws of the three and has very good feel, but can be notchy at times, and 6th is hard to find. Also, third gear has been an issue with many Si owners. I've heard that changing the transmission fluid improves things considerably. Power down low is pretty good, but not earth-shattering. Shift at 3000-3500 and you'll get 28+ mpg. Shifting at 3500-5000 rpms feels very sporty and good for normal driving. Above 6000+ rpms, the driving experience is TOTALLY transformed. You feel like you're driving a $20K Ferrari, if such a thing existed. The engine screams like a race car, the scenery blurs, and you just hang on until the shift light starts to blink... it's completely addictive. The others I test drove just didn't grab me the way the Si did, and in the end that (coupled with better value) was what sold me. |
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Replying to: sabastian (Sep 21, 2007 8:31 am) even though i love the high rpm thrills and flat cornering of the si, the gti's powerband, stability and classiness are unmatched. if its of any consolation, i had a mkV rabbit, and i drove her to 28k without any problems. VW really upped reliability with the MkV's, even if it still falls short of honda standards.
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Replying to: eldaino (Sep 27, 2007 8:32 am) 
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