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Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKS, Lincoln MKX
#865 of 4170 Re: Lincoln rolls out plan to shift out of reverse [heyjewel]
Nov 05, 2006 (8:39 pm)
And BTW, Rock, looks like u got a little more time to decide on the MKS as your next car: "Horbury said ... the brand's transformation will be complete when its new flagship, the MKS, goes into production in 2009." Going into production in 2009 means it's a 2010 model. And one thing I learned from my old man is "don't buy the first model year of a new car." So 2011 is it, Rock. Whatcha gonna drive til then? A (Bentley) Continental?
I probably won't wait until 2009' heyjewel, but then again you never know with me. I disagree with your "old man's" thinking and believe it's more a thing of the past to not buy the first year. I've always been a strong believer of buying the latest and greatest to be ahead of the residual curve. I've always found it better on GM products when using my discount to buy the latest product because I could trade in/sell my vehicle anytime without losing my butt.
The MKZ is getting over 300 hp in 2 years. I'm not writing off Lincoln, like you yet. They got the technology to compete and they are not as over-priced as Caddy's and I love Cadillac's. However Cadillacs are way over priced. The STS should be $56K loaded w/ AWD. The Escalade should top out at $60K w/ 22's Anyways Lincoln, IMHO will give the domestics and imports a run with their new line-up and won't fall apart like some posters predict.
#866 of 4170 Re: Lincoln rolls out plan to shift out of reverse [nvbanker]
Nov 05, 2006 (9:00 pm)
I've also thought about Lincoln sharing platforms with Jag but there is one problem (other than the high cost) - the big Ford V8s won't fit. The biggest engine that Jag uses is the 4.2L AJ-V8, just like the LS and Tbird only with a longer stroke. This is part of what killed the LS - can't use the cheaper, larger corporate V8s.
That's why they need a new RWD platform that's similar to the DEW98 but cheaper than the current Jag DEW variant and able to handle the modular V8s.
#867 of 4170 Re: Lincoln rolls out plan to shift out of reverse [rockylee]
Nov 05, 2006 (9:02 pm)
The MKS was originally scheduled for fall 2007 as a 2008 model but was moved back to spring 2008 as a 2009 model (not 2009 as a 2010 model). It's late enough as is - no need to make it even later.
#868 of 4170 Re: Lincoln rolls out plan to shift out of reverse [akirby]
Nov 05, 2006 (9:11 pm)
That's the same thing I read. However some people are so negative about the nice products coming out of Lincoln, they will find fault with them no matter what. The only fault the MKZ has is it's power. It needs 320+ hp. to go along with it's AWD. I read within 2 years they will have a new engine for it 3.7 V-6? and that could make it a class leader. The current MKZ, has the styling, interior, technology, right now to be a leader. However the engine quite isn't good enough and that's ashme. Perhaps Ford should of used a supercharger to get the much needed power to have a class winner. If it had the power, I would probably be buying/leasing one right now.
#869 of 4170 Re: Lincoln rolls out plan to shift out of reverse [rockylee]
Nov 05, 2006 (9:33 pm)
I disagree with your "old man's" thinking and believe it's more a thing of the past to not buy the first year.
Well, I do and I don't. I have purchased the first year out redesigned Mercury Mountaineer, and it wasn't bad. The 04 though, is decidedly better except, it's the 04 that has needed 3 transmission rebuilds - the first model year out 02 did not need any.
I also bought the first new Navigator in 03, and as much as people like to say it's really the 97 still, I couldn't find any thing but the motor carried over from 02. Again, it wasn't bad, but it had little things that need adjustment shall we say.
Now, conversely, with amazement I read how bad the new Camrys are this year, with paper mache transmissions, and Toyota not wanting to step up and fix them! That freaks me out, because the two things you could always count on with Toyota, was the bland styling, and bullet proof reliability. No more, it seems, don't buy the 07 Camry, wait for the 08. Honda had this problem in 04 with their transaxles as well. The Japanese are less anxious to fix these problems also - it's just hard for them to believe.
Then there is Nissan. If you do a little research, you'll see that Nissan has problems with their 3.5L engine going bad around 70,000 miles, transmissions failing about the same time, and lots and lots of other quality problems across the line. Yes, Renault has made their mark and turned Nissan into a Peugeot.
Right now, even I'd buy a first year Lincoln or Caddy over a first year Toyota, and I'm steering clear completely of Nissan right now.
#870 of 4170 Re: Lincoln rolls out plan to shift out of reverse [rockylee]
Nov 06, 2006 (1:00 am)
Why not just buy the Mazda6 or Montego/Fusion? It is not like this Lincoln is a world class RWD car, now is it? Ford has a 300HP car ready to go -- it is called the Mustang. In the Lincoln line, the LS comes the closest to world class performance with the V8. The McDonald's / MKZ is no bargain really. Don't super size menu, just go for the standard Mazda or Montego order, same thing.
#871 of 4170 Re: Lincoln rolls out plan to shift out of reverse [nvbanker]
Nov 06, 2006 (5:07 am)
Nvbanker's original post on subject sounds like a good plan to me. I thought the concept Conti, Mark IX and Mark X were good designs. The Lincoln I remember had the big traditional RWD luxo car (TC), the FWD trimmer car (Conti), the personal luxury coupe (a proper Mark) and the SUV/CUV variants (Navigator / Aviator). I'd like to see that lineup eventually.
Lincoln needs to incorporate some cutting edge tech into the TC, like bluetooth, adaptive cruise control, etc., while keeping the tech in the background. Tech should be there to serve, not overwhelm the driver, as in BMW's hated iDrive system. Invent or steal Lexus' auto park system. It's introducing technology like that which makes a luxury brand.
I'd like to see some commonalty among styling cues, like either a waterfall grill or eggcrate grill across the board. I liked the chrome fender caps along the beltline, as in the concepts; it showed some brand DNA.
All Lincolns will have the electroluminescent guages in them, as glitzy and pretty with colors as possible...
Just not too many colors - that might look garish!
#872 of 4170 Re: Lincoln rolls out plan to shift out of reverse [akirby]
Nov 06, 2006 (8:53 am)
"The MKS was originally scheduled for fall 2007 as a 2008 model but was moved back to spring 2008 as a 2009 model (not 2009 as a 2010 model). It's late enough as is - no need to make it even later."
You should tell Horbury then because he said the MKS "goes into production" in 2009, which makes it a 2010 model or perhaps 2009 1/2.
#873 of 4170 Re: Lincoln rolls out plan to shift out of reverse [nvbanker]
Nov 06, 2006 (8:58 am)
"My biggest concern remains the ad campaign."
Who saw the Patriots/Colts game yesterday? The MKZ was advertised several times during the second half. Kind of a silly ad, but not terrible and not offensive. The features of the car were not dwelt upon, more like a lifestyle commercial - guy actually works at home, but commutes anyway cause the Z is such fun to drive by driving in a circle in the AM and ending up back home. (gee, bit of a waste of gas?)
#874 of 4170 Re: Lincoln rolls out plan to shift out of reverse [rockylee]
Nov 06, 2006 (9:00 am)
"I disagree with your "old man's" thinking and believe it's more a thing of the past to not buy the first year. I've always been a strong believer of buying the latest and greatest to be ahead of the residual curve"
Whatever, Rocky. Belief can be a strong motivator. Don't bother asking folks who bought, say, a 2000 LS as opposed to a 2001. BTW, what's the "residual" curve? :>)