Last post on Dec 07, 2013 at 9:04 PM
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Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKS, Lincoln MKX
#3681 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [akirby]
Jun 06, 2012 (12:25 pm)
Well, a rwd platform SHOULD serve more than Lincoln. Ford ought to have a RWD sedan, along with the Mustang, somewhere in the line-up.
Chrysler has the 300, and the next 200 will be moved upmarket to compete with the Audi A4...and rumor has it, the new 200 will be RWD, like the 300. Chevrolet is about to introduce its SS...yes, it is a somewhat older architecture from Holden, but it means that Chevy will also have a RWD sedan as another choice in their line-up. Cadillac plans to have three sizes of RWD sedans (like the Germans) within the next couple of years. The rwd ATS will be on sale this month, and the CTS will be fully re-vamped in 2013.
Why Ford thinks this is a situation to study further is beyond me. Now, if Lincoln had longitudinally mounted engines like Audi that were situated over or slightly behind the front axle--instead of partially in front of it (like economy FWDs are set up)--rwd would not be so critical to rebuilding the brand. I suspect the new new Lincoln team knows this already, as making excuses for a dowdy thing like the MKS with acres of front overhang is not going to cut it. The 2013 Lexus ES does a better job of adding some style to this type of set-up and at a lower price point. The 2013 Toyota Avalon also sits better on its FWD architecture, also at a lower price point (and with better re-sale). Lincoln has been stuck for too long now with the unfortunately styled MKS, that is the only thing in the line-up that could possibly replace the TC (attempts to sell the MKT to the livery trade notwithstanding).
BTW, the 2013 MKZ looking reminiscent of an Audi is a very good thing. It has some Aston too, plus a distinctiveness all its own. Edward, you don't have to buy it, but other people will, and likely in greater numbers than any Lincoln model in recent memory...not that that will be hard to do.
#3682 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [gregg_vw]
Jun 06, 2012 (5:00 pm)
The D3 platform is not conducive to sedans. The Taurus and MKS just don't look right and they don't have much interior room. That's why they're moving away from it for sedans.
Ford was stuck in a position where they did not have a suitable RWD sedan platform due to poor decisions of the past. It would have been foolish for them to spend billions on a new platform at the time for a somewhat limited market compared to the gaps they needed to close in higher volume and growing segments like hybrids, small and midsized cars and crossovers.
Now they're focusing on RWD and we'll have to wait another year or two to see what comes out.
Anybody who understands how to run a business understands how Ford is operating and it makes perfect sense that they are where they are today given what the current team had to start with.
#3683 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [akirby]
Jun 07, 2012 (5:59 am)
I hope I am not poking the bear, but why on earth did it not occur to someone among those well-paid engineers, designers and administrators to use the 117" MKT/Flex platform for a big Lincoln sedan? It would not have to have been significantly longer than the current MKS, and it would have resulted in the roomiest back seat in the class. Remember, the TC had a 117" wheelbase, and was once the roomiest sedan in the world (excepting some extended wheelbase models from other manufacturers). Of course the TC had huge front and rear overhangs in the style of the times in which it was born, but Lincoln also showed with the LS that it could create a modern car with a wheelbase as long as the Crown Vic, but with trim overhangs and more overall balance. The MKT platform would have cost nothing more to use, since it was already planned for use on other models. Do these guys not brainstorm when they are trying to come up with models like the MKS?
#3684 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [gregg_vw]
Jun 07, 2012 (6:19 am)
I'm sure it did occur to them but it probably didn't make financial sense to offer a large, luxobarge Lincoln to replace the TC. Since none of us were at the product planning meetings, we'll never know.
BTW, the MKS rides on the D3 platform which is the basis for the D4 which the MKT/Explorer/Flex use. The D4 is slightly stretched. I know that's what you are getting at.
#3685 of 4409 Re: Dare I say it? [gregg_vw]
Jun 07, 2012 (7:07 am)
Two cents. Mine is a '10 without ecoboost. First, have you sat on those seats for any length of time in those other vehicles? Although they may have some appearance that is different, they are no more comfortable than the 11 Buick Lacrosse CXS. They fit into what many reviewers complain concerning cooled seats. I don't know how Lincoln beat that assessment on the MKS, but they certainly did. By time I got around to checking the Caddy I had learned how to look for that defect in seating. It only took a couple of minutes and it was exit, door closed. If they can't put a comfortable seat for long rides, the rest don't matter.
I do feel my MKS could be better in a few ways. The CXS had the 3.6L DI and even though it was 200 pounds heavier, it got better mileage and more power. I have no idea how fast it could go, other than my salesman told me he had one to 140 mph. I let off at 128 and it was still accelerating fast, and that was before they boosted the power by about 40 horses.
The CXS was razor tight on steering, that is with the H-arm rear and touring suspension. The downside to that is every little bump induced a sway in the rear which could be gotten around by switching to sport mode. If you are looking for something that rides and handles like a sport model, this might work for you, but it beat me to death on most roads. I would have hoped they had at least one more setting for the electronic suspension, one that got rid of the rough while maintaining control.
And that is where I really see the difference from my MKS. The steering seems to have a slight play, but it is much smoother riding. I ride in comfort. As to back seat room, I've had people remark how roomy it seems, as with the CXS which had no trunk room.
I would like to give an ecoboost model a thorough shake down. After owning a GM with electric power steering that would intermittantly try to drive me off the road, I'm leary of that. And where I live, the need for AWD is far less than some places which raises of questions of need/cost/reliability, etc. One thing Ford does not have that I truly miss is the HUD, heads up display. This is something that should become standard on all vehicles for safety reasons.
Lincoln needs to make its sheet metal more durable, a tiny bump will dent. And I'm not impressed with their door seals and sealing. Carpeting screams cheap. And they need to make the vehicle quieter.
#3686 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [robr2]
Jun 07, 2012 (8:53 am)
Not sure why they didn't go with the longer wheelbase. I'm sure it was a combination of things that made sense at the time.
Ford is being really secretive about new products and platforms so it's hard to tell what's going on. We know there is a new global mustang in the works and it would make sense that the new platform will also be used on other vehicles.
My guess is we could see Taurus move to a longer and/or wider CD4 (like Toyota does with the Avalon and Camry) and we get RWD coupes and sedans (one each for Lincoln plus Mustang and a performance sedan for Ford). The Aussies could also use it eventually. Whatever the platform ends up being I think it's clear that it will be sold globally.
Or Taurus moves to the new RWD platform. I can see a business case for both scenarios.
#3687 of 4409 Re: Dare I say it? [e_net_rider]
Jun 13, 2012 (10:16 am)
What did they do to the seating that makes it so bad?
#3688 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [carguy1969]
Jul 23, 2012 (6:40 pm)
Very impressed with the new MKZ I read about, especially the cabin. But I must agree with carguy - I have a Lexus, and still use my old Lincoln dealer to service my 6 Fords, and the difference in treatment is black and white. My Lincoln dealer just doesn't get it - And I'm a good friend and customer there!!
#3689 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [nvbanker]
Jul 23, 2012 (9:16 pm)
Have you seen any of the new Lincoln dealerships? From what I've seen and heard they will be just as good as Lexus. Of course it will take a couple of years for them to be upgraded and it may only be the ones in large cities. But they are taking steps to fix the problem.
#3690 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [akirby]
Aug 06, 2012 (3:13 pm)
Well, I can be a good judge of that - because I use both. I have a Lexus, and I take my 7 Fords to the Lincoln dealer for service still - know the service manager.
The new Lincoln store in Las Vegas is nice indeed, however it used to be a Saturn Store! But a nice one. The problem is, the level of service there is NOTHING like the Lexus store. The dignity, pomp and ceremony is missing at Lincoln. Customer service is still mediocre, cashier is a vacuous idiot who can barely get your paperwork together. If I weren't well known by the Service Manager, I would be gone. Plus, more often than not, even with that local knowledge, the mechanics do the repair incorrectly, and the cars must come back.
At the Lexus store, you call for an appointment. You are offered a loaner car, no matter what. When you arrive, you are greeted and processed, invited into a lounge with food and drink, very large TV and a very comfortable atmosphere for work or relaxation. Your service advisor comes and gets you shortly and takes you to his office where you discuss the service you desire, and options to spend more money are offered. Then off to your pre-cooled loaner, (gas is always provided and you don't have to replace it). Your Car is always carefully washed when you pick it up, and so far, always taken care of, whatever the issue may be. Usually only service, they don't break much.
I understand Ford's goal for the Lincoln store, and the target is correct. Lexus has the best treatment and service going, BMW is a close second. Mercedes, at least here, is horrible! Any Chevy store can beat MB in this town for treatment.
At our Lincoln store, no appointment is possible. But they are so slow, it's not an issue. You drive in, after a while a service writer may notice you. They are usually fairly rude and not at all knowledgable about the product. Many times I have had to show them what is wrong because they don't get it. If you ask for transportation, you are offered a ride in the next van, which could be an hour wait. If you demand a car, you are referred to Enterprise (they pick you up, you know). They are supposed to have loaners, but they have only one. And who gets that? I don't know.
So they have a long way to go to match Lexus.
The west side store is a Ford/Lincoln store - I don't even need to explain, do I?