Last post on Dec 07, 2013 at 9:04 PM
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Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKS, Lincoln MKX
#3677 of 4409 Re: Cadillac XTS, 2013 MKZ and Fusion styling. [edward53]
Jun 05, 2012 (11:58 am)
Not so remarkable. It's the dominant style for C and D sedans, and that silhouette is shared by many brands among 2013 models. Still, the Cadillac looks like a Cadillac (not a Ford), and the Ford looks like a Ford. It remains to be seen if the 2013 MKZ looks like a Lincoln--since the new new Lincoln style has not yet hit the streets.
As for the MKS and the Ecoboost...great engine in an ungainly-looking car. That combination doesn't always sell. A few years ago, Mercury put a 300 hp V8 (good power for that era) in a Grand Marquis and called it a Marauder. It did not sell in any numbers, even with a good engine, because the body style was already old by then (except in the eyes of [often large] old guys), and the interior trim was just cheap. Thank goodness they put a stop to the proposed Marauder convertible...that would have been an even bigger sales disaster.
#3678 of 4409 Re: Cadillac XTS, 2013 MKZ and Fusion styling. [gregg_vw]
Jun 05, 2012 (2:14 pm)
People at the NY auto show were commenting that the 2013 Lincoln MKZ looked like an Audi. Some People went back and forth from the Lincoln exhibit to the Audi exhibit a couple of times to compare the styles. The person in charge of the Audi exhibit said that "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." But I really wouldn't care if the Lincoln looked exactly like its Ford cousin thought it would have to have an exclusive platform for me to be interested in it.
Jun 05, 2012 (4:38 pm)
Poor dealerships, no RWD, noise levels same as Ford model? Lipstick and high heals don't get me there. In 2010 bought my first non-Ford in 40 years. Well, I guess it was a Ford at one time....a Jaguar XF. It will take better dealers, RWD and a very quite cabin to win me back.
#3680 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [carguy1969]
Jun 05, 2012 (5:16 pm)
The dealerships are being revamped significantly with dedicated Lincoln staffs and amenities. Lincoln typically uses thicker glass and more insulation - which vehicle did you drive that was noisy?
As for RWD - not until they get a new global rwd platform that can serve more than just Lincoln. Too expensive.
#3681 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [akirby]
Jun 06, 2012 (12:25 pm)
Well, a rwd platform SHOULD serve more than Lincoln. Ford ought to have a RWD sedan, along with the Mustang, somewhere in the line-up.
Chrysler has the 300, and the next 200 will be moved upmarket to compete with the Audi A4...and rumor has it, the new 200 will be RWD, like the 300. Chevrolet is about to introduce its SS...yes, it is a somewhat older architecture from Holden, but it means that Chevy will also have a RWD sedan as another choice in their line-up. Cadillac plans to have three sizes of RWD sedans (like the Germans) within the next couple of years. The rwd ATS will be on sale this month, and the CTS will be fully re-vamped in 2013.
Why Ford thinks this is a situation to study further is beyond me. Now, if Lincoln had longitudinally mounted engines like Audi that were situated over or slightly behind the front axle--instead of partially in front of it (like economy FWDs are set up)--rwd would not be so critical to rebuilding the brand. I suspect the new new Lincoln team knows this already, as making excuses for a dowdy thing like the MKS with acres of front overhang is not going to cut it. The 2013 Lexus ES does a better job of adding some style to this type of set-up and at a lower price point. The 2013 Toyota Avalon also sits better on its FWD architecture, also at a lower price point (and with better re-sale). Lincoln has been stuck for too long now with the unfortunately styled MKS, that is the only thing in the line-up that could possibly replace the TC (attempts to sell the MKT to the livery trade notwithstanding).
BTW, the 2013 MKZ looking reminiscent of an Audi is a very good thing. It has some Aston too, plus a distinctiveness all its own. Edward, you don't have to buy it, but other people will, and likely in greater numbers than any Lincoln model in recent memory...not that that will be hard to do.
#3682 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [gregg_vw]
Jun 06, 2012 (5:00 pm)
The D3 platform is not conducive to sedans. The Taurus and MKS just don't look right and they don't have much interior room. That's why they're moving away from it for sedans.
Ford was stuck in a position where they did not have a suitable RWD sedan platform due to poor decisions of the past. It would have been foolish for them to spend billions on a new platform at the time for a somewhat limited market compared to the gaps they needed to close in higher volume and growing segments like hybrids, small and midsized cars and crossovers.
Now they're focusing on RWD and we'll have to wait another year or two to see what comes out.
Anybody who understands how to run a business understands how Ford is operating and it makes perfect sense that they are where they are today given what the current team had to start with.
#3683 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [akirby]
Jun 07, 2012 (5:59 am)
I hope I am not poking the bear, but why on earth did it not occur to someone among those well-paid engineers, designers and administrators to use the 117" MKT/Flex platform for a big Lincoln sedan? It would not have to have been significantly longer than the current MKS, and it would have resulted in the roomiest back seat in the class. Remember, the TC had a 117" wheelbase, and was once the roomiest sedan in the world (excepting some extended wheelbase models from other manufacturers). Of course the TC had huge front and rear overhangs in the style of the times in which it was born, but Lincoln also showed with the LS that it could create a modern car with a wheelbase as long as the Crown Vic, but with trim overhangs and more overall balance. The MKT platform would have cost nothing more to use, since it was already planned for use on other models. Do these guys not brainstorm when they are trying to come up with models like the MKS?
#3684 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [gregg_vw]
Jun 07, 2012 (6:19 am)
I'm sure it did occur to them but it probably didn't make financial sense to offer a large, luxobarge Lincoln to replace the TC. Since none of us were at the product planning meetings, we'll never know.
BTW, the MKS rides on the D3 platform which is the basis for the D4 which the MKT/Explorer/Flex use. The D4 is slightly stretched. I know that's what you are getting at.
#3685 of 4409 Re: Dare I say it? [gregg_vw]
Jun 07, 2012 (7:07 am)
Two cents. Mine is a '10 without ecoboost. First, have you sat on those seats for any length of time in those other vehicles? Although they may have some appearance that is different, they are no more comfortable than the 11 Buick Lacrosse CXS. They fit into what many reviewers complain concerning cooled seats. I don't know how Lincoln beat that assessment on the MKS, but they certainly did. By time I got around to checking the Caddy I had learned how to look for that defect in seating. It only took a couple of minutes and it was exit, door closed. If they can't put a comfortable seat for long rides, the rest don't matter.
I do feel my MKS could be better in a few ways. The CXS had the 3.6L DI and even though it was 200 pounds heavier, it got better mileage and more power. I have no idea how fast it could go, other than my salesman told me he had one to 140 mph. I let off at 128 and it was still accelerating fast, and that was before they boosted the power by about 40 horses.
The CXS was razor tight on steering, that is with the H-arm rear and touring suspension. The downside to that is every little bump induced a sway in the rear which could be gotten around by switching to sport mode. If you are looking for something that rides and handles like a sport model, this might work for you, but it beat me to death on most roads. I would have hoped they had at least one more setting for the electronic suspension, one that got rid of the rough while maintaining control.
And that is where I really see the difference from my MKS. The steering seems to have a slight play, but it is much smoother riding. I ride in comfort. As to back seat room, I've had people remark how roomy it seems, as with the CXS which had no trunk room.
I would like to give an ecoboost model a thorough shake down. After owning a GM with electric power steering that would intermittantly try to drive me off the road, I'm leary of that. And where I live, the need for AWD is far less than some places which raises of questions of need/cost/reliability, etc. One thing Ford does not have that I truly miss is the HUD, heads up display. This is something that should become standard on all vehicles for safety reasons.
Lincoln needs to make its sheet metal more durable, a tiny bump will dent. And I'm not impressed with their door seals and sealing. Carpeting screams cheap. And they need to make the vehicle quieter.
#3686 of 4409 Re: Lincoln? [robr2]
Jun 07, 2012 (8:53 am)
Not sure why they didn't go with the longer wheelbase. I'm sure it was a combination of things that made sense at the time.
Ford is being really secretive about new products and platforms so it's hard to tell what's going on. We know there is a new global mustang in the works and it would make sense that the new platform will also be used on other vehicles.
My guess is we could see Taurus move to a longer and/or wider CD4 (like Toyota does with the Avalon and Camry) and we get RWD coupes and sedans (one each for Lincoln plus Mustang and a performance sedan for Ford). The Aussies could also use it eventually. Whatever the platform ends up being I think it's clear that it will be sold globally.
Or Taurus moves to the new RWD platform. I can see a business case for both scenarios.