Last post on May 20, 2013 at 8:59 AM
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Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKS, Lincoln MKX
#3594 of 4166 Re: Good news bad news [nvbanker]
Feb 09, 2012 (3:43 pm)
Agreed. Before I bought my new Volvo in 2011, I decided to try a slightly used CTS in an effort to save some bucks. It did not sound or ride any longer like a luxury car should (and I know they are quiet when new), and additionally there were unexplained squeaks and creaks. I brought it back after a couple blocks, and said no thanks.
#3595 of 4166 New Ford Fusion models and new Lincoln MKZ models.
Feb 26, 2012 (11:55 am)
Could someone explain to me why the new Fusion and new MKZ share the same profile? I thought that Lincoln was suppose to have a completely different body style? It seems that the marketing people have their work cut out for them. I can't wait to read the excuses.
#3596 of 4166 Re: New Ford Fusion models and new Lincoln MKZ models. [edward53]
Feb 26, 2012 (5:20 pm)
Nobody said it would be a "completely different body style" - that isn't feasible when sharing a platform. The MKZ doesn't share any sheetmetal with the new Fusion. The MKZ concept is not the final production version - it was actually built after the production vehicle. I don't think the production version will be confused with a Fusion like the current model.
#3597 of 4166 Saw a documentary...
Feb 26, 2012 (11:57 pm)
...featuring JFK's home movies on the History Channel tonight. Seems he was a big fan of early 1960s Lincolns and Mercuries. Sadly, there is no more Mercury and today's Lincolns hardly have the allure of those classic early-mid 1960s Continentals.
#3598 of 4166 Re: Saw a documentary... [lemko]
Feb 28, 2012 (3:09 pm)
today's Lincolns hardly have the allure of those classic early-mid 1960s Continentals.
Nor, do the Cadillacs.....
#3599 of 4166 Re: New Ford Fusion models and new Lincoln MKZ models. [akirby]
Feb 29, 2012 (1:27 am)
You wrote that "nobody said that Lincoln was suppose to have a completely different body style from the Fusion because of platform sharing limitations on design and yet the MKZ does not share any sheet metal with the Fusion." How can it be both? Sounds like some marketing double talk. I seen the new 2013 Fusion with the 2013 MKZ side by side . These are going to be the production vehicles. Their profiles are very similar. There is a difference in the front and the rear but that is it. In fact , members of the automotive press were expecting something completely unique for Lincoln than what was showed.Everyone was led to believe that Lincoln's styling would be unique and original to Lincoln as was stated when Mullaly spoke at Chicago's Ford Torrence Ave plant in Chicago last year. And you are correct when you point out that because Lincolns will share Ford platforms, Lincoln cannot have a unique body style to call its own. I think even you now would admit that as long as Lincoln shares Ford platforms it can never be a premium brand.
#3600 of 4166 Re: New Ford Fusion models and new Lincoln MKZ models. [edward53]
Feb 29, 2012 (11:47 am)
By similar I mean they will both be 4 door sedans on the same wheelbase. But I do expect that the Lincoln will not share any sheetmetal with the Fusion including doors and the greenhouse.
The problem Lincoln currently has with the MKX and MKZ is that from the side they look identical to their cheaper Ford cousins. That won't be the case with the MKZ as far as I can tell.
I mean seriously - if they change all the sheetmetal and ALL the interior bits and the wheels and they give it more power and unique powertrains and they give it unique suspensions and unique features like retractable glass roofs - what more do you want?
I think even you now would admit that as long as Lincoln shares Ford platforms it can never be a premium brand.
I would not admit that because it's just not true. Audi shared cheaper VW platforms and had FWD/AWD and nobody ever claimed they weren't a true premium brand.
Lexus' 2 biggest sellers are the RX and ES - both FWD and both based on cheaper Toyota platforms.
You just have a personal bias against Ford platforms which is fine and dandy as far as your personal buying goes but don't try to make objective conclusions based on your subjective feelings.
Lincolns formula will work fine if they execute on their plans with great styling and features and top notch customer service.
Mar 01, 2012 (8:24 am)
For those who don't know, it was the Olds Aurora and Cadillacs of that time that had stiffer chassis to the point that it called for the invention of RFB, road force balance for the tires. A slight imbalance was apparently annoying as hell for owners.
With better tires and RFB they were able to work on better suspensions, etc. It seems they still have a way to go.
I sat in a new 2-door Cadillac in the show room last summer. It was not the model I might have desired, but that highend vehicle would be enough to learn what I wanted. Vehicles with cooled seats pretty much fit the professional reviewer's opinions. The GM and Chrysler are absolutely horrible for padding and comfort on a long ride. I learned the problem after having a 2011 Lacrosse CXS with sport touring package. The problem, things related to this issue, start with horrible, noisy, poor wet traction, hard riding GY Eagle low profile tires. Passing any slight bump as a hard object completely through the vehicle. To the seat and steering wheel makes for bad design. (the full time electronic suspension definitely did not handle this, if it was working)
And as reviewers have indicated, there is definitely an issue with seat design when they try to blow air through it. The choice of padding material becomes limited, it appears, and there is definitely not enough of it. And just because you buy a model that does not have the cooled seats, it does not mean you won't get the same horrible seat.
Bouncing my butt into that seat of the Cadillac a few times told me it would be no better than the Buick. I also tried a Chrysler 300, which appeared to have the same seat as the one with the cooling and it was also a bad seat.
I can say that the Lincoln MKS seat is a different animal to say the least. I could tell it when I sat in the one in the showroom. I was still hesitant because I test drove a Fusion a couple of years back. It was the dealer's demo car, but it was a horrible seat. It felt like it had been ridden to death. Like maybe by someone weighing 400# who only drove down railroad ties. (For those who don't know, that is an extremely bumping ride, like hitting a pothole every two feet on all four wheels.) I ran from that vehicle. I can say the seat in the MKS at 30K miles is still very good. On my recent long road runs, I had very little of the back problems the former vehicles induced.
But the passenger seat, likely used very little, is quite a bit better than the driver seat.
Lincoln, keep up the good work on this item, but can you do something with the darned headrest that beats the back of my head until I end up with painful neck and headaches?
It almost seems designers still follow the development of horse drawn vehicles. The seat being the last thing thought of.
#3602 of 4166 Re: New Ford Fusion models and new Lincoln MKZ models. [edward53]
Mar 03, 2012 (10:15 am)
So you don't like the new MKZ...other people will. It will stand out, whereas the current one is anonymous. No marketing double talk...it does not share anything external with Fusion, and as Allen pointed out, you have yet to see the production version. By the way, have you not noticed that there are styling trends out there? Grab a handful of mid-size cars from different manufacturers and you will find a lot of them share a similar profile. For example, a "four door coupe" thing (no, they really don't look like coupes) is going on with everything from the CC and Sonata to the Volvo S60, Buick Regal and Lexus IS. Now, I suppose if Lincoln hired you as an advisor, they would be doing so much better in a few years than if they ignore what you think. But no one has to admit to anything contained in your last sentence, as many manufacturers are able to get premium models out of shared brands. I have given you numerous non-Ford examples previously. Have a nice day.
#3603 of 4166 Re: New Ford Fusion models and new Lincoln MKZ models. [gregg_vw]
Mar 03, 2012 (11:33 am)
OK! Explain to me how the new MKZ cannot have a completely different body style because of platform sharing with the Fusion and yet it does not share any sheet metal with the Fusion? I remember covering Mullaly when he spoke at the Ford Torrence Ave plant in Chicago and he said that Lincoln will have unique body styles that will share nothing with the Ford models. I realize that the marketing folks for Ford have got to really find some "weasel words" to get out of this jam that they find themselves in with Lincoln. By the way the Lexus IS shares platform with Toyota. Another example of body design limitations because of sharing platforms with a cheaper vehicle. So Thank You, and have a nice day. P. S. I did see the final versions of both the Fusion and MKZ. It was to have been introduced in April. I don't think that you and your partner Allen have seen the final production models. Ford can't change the dies now for these models to really differentiate the MKZ from the Fusion because of cost and time restraint of meeting the production date.