Last post on Dec 07, 2013 at 9:04 PM
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Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKS, Lincoln MKX
#3430 of 4409 Re: 2013 MKZ [edward53]
Sep 07, 2011 (5:05 am)
If you share a lot of the sheetmetal (like the current Edge/MKX and Fusion/MKZ) and you share the same drivetrains and suspension then you would have somewhat of a point.
But if you take the same platform, lengthen and widen it, change the wheelbase, put in different drivetrains and suspension and 100% unique sheetmetal then the only thing left from the original platform is the floorpan and basic electrical architecture.
What you're really saying is they can't make a decent luxury car out of a FWD platform. I bet if they took the Mustang platform and used that you'd be perfectly fine with it even though it's just as cheap as the current CD3 platform.
CD4 is a new platform purposely built for the Focus/Mondeo/Taurus, MKZ and MKS. It's not a cheap platform turned into a luxury car platform after the fact - it's being engineered as a Lincoln platform from the beginning. And the only downside to the platform being FWD is that it's harder to achieve 50/50 weight distribution and it limits the front end styling options since the wheels have to be inline with the engine.
There is no reason to think this platform won't support a 400 hp AWD 3.5L Ecoboost drivetrain.
#3431 of 4409 Re: 2013 MKZ [akirby]
Sep 07, 2011 (7:28 am)
So, I can buy a Ford Taurus with a Lincoln platform? No I would not take a Mustang platform and put it on a Lincoln no matter what they did to it. I seem to remember Ford taking the obsolete Fox platform and giving it an independent rear suspension when it was used on the Lincoln MK 8. As far as adjustable suspensions Ford has done that and discontinued it because of problems. Besides it would not be adjutsed automatically to driving or road conditions as Cadillac's already does. Chrysler had a push button transmission in the 1950's Had to discontinued it because kids would push the buttons and put it in gear and then it would take off. I bet this front wheel platform will have its engine mounted transversely which would still cause torque steer when torque steer can be eliminated by mounting the engine longitudinally which would also give it better balance.
#3432 of 4409 Re: I aspire to own a Lincoln... [lemko]
Sep 07, 2011 (7:44 am)
And we know that even if that Lincoln has been totalled, burned, shot up, and chemically poisoned, once lemko takes possession it will run for 250,000 miles on one oil change, be in perfect shape, nothing will break for 10 years, the car will have no squeaks or rattles, even the window motors will work forever, lemko will buy it for $2,500.00 and sell it 10 years later for $15,000.00 cash in hand...
#3433 of 4409 Re: I aspire to own a Lincoln... [marsha7]
Sep 07, 2011 (8:01 am)
Ford has already done that to Lincoln. The only problem is is that it would be a miracle for it to be around for 250Kmiles
#3434 of 4409 Re: I aspire to own a Lincoln... [edward53]
Sep 07, 2011 (8:36 am)
Unless you are very mechanical, I don't think most cars from anywhere go 250K miles. They just get too expensive to maintain as the miles start piling up and the reliability starts degrading.
Lincoln's new concept, at least on paper, may have a chance as long as they get the handling and ride right and don't gouge the sticker price (a problem Ford seems to have lately). There is a segment that may go for that high tech approach as long as it is reliable. However, I'm not sure that approach will provide a lot of volume unless as akirby says the cars are knockouts style wise.
The lux bracket may become more important down the road as fuel prices keep growing hurting large truck and SUV sales, and the middle class continues to be eroded in this country. Auto companies may have to rely on lux sales to wealthier individuals in order to keep a high sales margin segment.
#3435 of 4409 Re: I aspire to own a Lincoln... [edward53]
Sep 07, 2011 (10:11 am)
If you knew lemko, all his cars are cream puffs, built by the UAW, have zero defects and run forever...and never need re-fueling...
#3436 of 4409 Re: I aspire to own a Lincoln... [marsha7]
Sep 07, 2011 (10:49 am)
Never need refueling. Must be like the atomic powered Batmobile from the 1960's sit com. By the way that Batmobile was really a Lincoln Futura
Sep 07, 2011 (5:35 pm)
Lexus' 2 best selling vehicles are based on cheap Toyota FWD platforms.
Kuzak says Lincoln is aiming to be as engaging to drive as a BMW and as elegant as a Lexus.
I think they'll get really close because for once they're totally committed to Lincoln as a luxury brand. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
#3439 of 4409 Re: 2013 MKZ [edward53]
Sep 07, 2011 (7:13 pm)
Edward, I share your concern about platform sharing, but really, lots of luxury cars share architectural parts with more plebeian rides. The Lexus ES350 has Camry components. The current ES is getting long in the tooth, but it has been well-rated for quite some time (of course the Camry starts with a quiet cabin, so it is easy to build something special from there). Same with the Lexus RX and the corresponding Toyota.
Audi shares some architectures here and there with VW, although the majority of Audi's 20+ models either have their own or share architecture with higher ups (Bentley, Lamborghini, etc.). Infiniti does do their own cars separate from Nissan. Cadillac shares platforms and also has some of its own dedicated platforms. Most people had no idea that the soon to be discontinued DTS and the discontinued Buick Lucerne are the same underneath. Nor did they care. And never did they look alike as Grand Marquis and Crown Victoria did.
Lincoln has not had a dedicated platform since about 1980. The Continental and Town Car both used to use a separate chassis, but that stopped once the 1970s behemoths were done. Nonetheless, the Town Car soldiered on as more than just a Ford with brocade or leather. It had its own style and cache apart from the Ford and Mercury.
In recent years, it has become easier for manufacturers to distinguish their brands with completely different styling, interiors, and powertrains. Ford pre-Mulally did not see the utility of that. "People can't tell that the Explorer and Mountaineer are the same vehicle," and all that rot. Ford has a long history of both producing remarkable products, and also letting them die on the vine.
Now, Ford is trying to learn from its mistakes and trying to recover from losing market share and respect. Platform sharing is one way to go forward when the coffers have been depleted, and hunger has set in. Great things can come of one good platform. VW and Audi have turned out the Golf, Jetta, TT, Beetle, A3, upcoming A3 sedan, Eos, etc. from the same platform. The original Beetle platform spawned the Karman Ghia, the first Porsche, the Thing, the Type 2 and so on.
Anyway, sorry to be so long-winded here. Just saying that a good platform can become any number of good things. Add upscale components, and suddenly, you can have a luxury car if done right. Ford does not have the money or know how to do a whole series of rear drive models right now, even though I bet there are Lincoln people who would love to do so.
It isn't the platform sharing that is hurting Lincoln. It is introducing things like the MKS and expecting it to do well in the marketplace. Had the MKS been pretty and better proportioned, and not so clumsily drawn with vaguely derivative stabs at style, and more attention given to "feel," Lincoln would be doing a little better. After all, the lesser Taurus was derived from the MKS (and Volvo S80), not the other way around.
Nobody asked me of course, but I knew the first time I saw an MKS concept that it was a mistake. I have occasionally been wrong about a car I thought should have succeeded but didn't. But I have many times seen success in "pre-panned" cars that actually went on to do well. Lincoln can share platforms (but not bodies) and succeed. They have done so before. But they have to have beauty and value and some unique attributes beyond electronic gizmos.
Let's see what Lincoln can do now. I think they have gotten the message that platform sharing can no longer be done with badge engineering, or "let's change the body panels and interior and call it a better product." They have been slow, slow learners for sure. Almost killed the whole company. Efforts like the Zephyr/MKZ, MKS, MKT, a Navigator still using the same basic body since 1998...who wouldn't question this company's competence to compete? But now, it really is do or die. Ford can go on without Lincoln. But Ford will never get the respect it deserves until it can build some competitive upmarket products.