Last post on Dec 07, 2013 at 9:04 PM
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Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKS, Lincoln MKX
#3055 of 4409 Re: Wher Ford IS Taking Lincoln [madlock]
Aug 07, 2009 (4:44 am)
While the Navigator must exist as a segment placeholder alternative to the Escalade, it will be equally good to see it go the way of the Mark LT once the Explorer and Expedition drudge-off into the sunset as manufacturers and their vehicles return to the recalibrated planet we share.
I don't understand why people think we have to get rid of SUVs. What about people who need to carry 7 or 8 people comfortably AND/OR need to tow 7500 lbs? Even if you take out the soccer moms who could get by with a crossover, there are still folks who need a large SUV, even if it's a much smaller market. Why not work to make them as fuel efficient as possible - like Ford is doing by putting the Ecoboost 3.5L into the F-150.
It's like George Carlin once said - anyone who drives faster than you is a maniac - anyone who drives slower than you is an idiot. Seems to me most of the people who want to get rid of SUVs are driving midsized vehicles. If they applied the same logic to themselves they would be asking why not drive a Prius or an Escape hybrid or a 4 cylinder Focus - after all, they get much better fuel mileage than a Flex. People in glass houses........
As for the ES350/Camry vs. MKZ/Fusion - have you seen the 2010 MKZ? I think the interior is much better than the earlier models - it's a mini-MKS in fact. That only leaves the fact that the MKZ shares door panels and a roofline with the Fusion - something that will be fixed in a couple of years, just like Lincoln did with the MKS and the Taurus, and the MKT and the Flex - no shared body panels. Throw in the rumored 3.7L plus a few standard Lincoln amenities and I think the MKZ will blow away the ES350.
I agree with everything else. Lincoln was committed to return to RWD but then the economy tanked and gas went through the roof and resources were needed elsewhere. But if you look at where Ford has positioned the Taurus I think it's clear that Lincoln will be moving up with new platforms and more differentiation - it will just take longer before they'll be able to accomplish that.
#3056 of 4409 Re: Wher Ford IS Taking Lincoln [akirby]
Aug 07, 2009 (7:42 am)
I think the story here is that it is becoming Lexus 350, Lincoln MKZ and Buick LaCrosse while Acura is fading away and Hyundai Genesis seems stalled. BMW 3 class has always sort of been in its own niche, while MB isn't a big player until you get higher in price.
#3057 of 4409 Re: Wher Ford IS Taking Lincoln [berri]
Aug 07, 2009 (1:27 pm)
You may be on to something. Still, I note that MKZ sales do not justify it being considered a top contender yet. Even as Acura has lost market share (like many in this recession), the TL continues to sell well, and handily outsells the MKZ (or MKS for that matter). The Genesis is likely doing ok for a luxury car being marketed from an economy brand. It is a more expensive vehicle than the MKZ, so they really can't be directly compared. We assume the LaCrosse will do well, but no sales figures of note are in yet. The MKZ needs another re-do before it will have a real chance to have an impact in this market.
#3058 of 4409 Re: Wher Ford IS Taking Lincoln [gregg_vw]
Aug 07, 2009 (5:03 pm)
Acura RL is somehow comparable to MKS. But RL sales are non-existed. I wonder why Honda still making it.
#3059 of 4409 Re: Wher Ford IS Taking Lincoln [savetheland]
Aug 08, 2009 (12:09 pm)
RL is really a step up pricewise from the MKS--though I don't you get your money's worth. In its price range, it really needs a V8, or a more powerful V6, and the RL styling does not stand out/does not say money (though it is a clean design). Other than the grill, it is also an old design. The RL has never really caught on like the Legend did. I think Acura has plans for it, but it is not a priority right now.
#3060 of 4409 Re: Wher Ford IS Taking Lincoln [akirby]
Aug 09, 2009 (10:09 am)
I agree with you, Allen. Having owned to excellent Navigators in the past, they will always have a soft spot in my heart, and IMO, were the best luxury SUV on the marke. I have also owned an Escalade, it was just a chevy truck with nice seats, and a far cry from the Navigator luxury or quality. But alas, the SUV has gone the way of the minivan now, being out of style, as the crossover takes over as the "acceptable" people hauler. So be it. trends are trends and they are hard to alter. The Explorer, Expedition and Navigators were and are excellent trucks when you need to tow or haul something. I still own an 07 Mountaineer, and consider it the best of the breed to this day.
#3061 of 4409 Re: Wher Ford IS Taking Lincoln [akirby]
Aug 12, 2009 (10:05 am)
I think the issue is that many bought these vehicles as jewelry, i.e. bling-bling, as nvbanker kind of alluded to. Many of these vehicles, particularly the high-end models, were driven by people who did not need such a big vehicle, but merely wanted it because it was the "in" vehicle. The proof of this was when petrol prices started going up in 2006 and really shot up in 2007 & 2008 and droves of people started getting rid of them. I mean, what happened to these people's "need" of space, safety (which is a joke because of the way most drive these vehicles), foul-weather ability. All those excuses all of a sudden went out the window when a fill-up cost about $100. I asked my neighbor that as they parked their Nav for basically 2nd-half 2007 - early 2009. It's only three of them in the family.
While there will be a small need for these vehicles as you stated in terms of towing, a large family (in number and possibly shape), or in hauling capability but unless you're doing these activities every day the #1 question becomes why have one. Not trying to tell people what to buy and I agree if you can afford it buy it - but I ask to be real with and about the purchase.
#3062 of 4409 Re: Wher Ford IS Taking Lincoln [jae5]
Aug 12, 2009 (11:50 am)
Right now Lincoln is (barely) outselling Cadillac again. Lincoln now has the MKS, the MKX and MKZ, and soon the MKT. The TC is no longer around to laugh at. But little appears to be on the drawing board (if you pay attention to these boards). I hope it is just holding their cards tight. The MKS will need a fix soon, as the body style is rather drab in the face of what is coming from the competition, and even by comparison to the Taurus SHO.
Cadillac has the very good RWD CTS, but most of the rest of the line is stumbling (DTS, STS, Escalade). However, we know a swoopy XTS large sedan is coming, as well as a RWD ATS (BMW 3 competitor). The CTS coupe is almost here. The CTS wagon is now available. And the new SRX is getting very good reviews, and does seem offer more class than its MKX rival. I'd love to see Lincoln get back into using some really stately style again. Something with presence that goes beyond MKS and Navi presence (simply because they are so tall). Something that people aspire to.
#3063 of 4409 Re: Wher Ford IS Taking Lincoln [gregg_vw]
Aug 12, 2009 (1:06 pm)
Something that people aspire to
The Aspire " is no longer around to laugh at."
#3064 of 4409 Re: Wher Ford IS Taking Lincoln [jae5]
Aug 12, 2009 (1:47 pm)
My wife drove an Expedition for 5 years and I assure you there was no "bling" involved. It was simply a large comfortable vehicle with lots of room that was very useful for hauling things and people.
I'm sure there are more fuel efficient alternatives to whatever vehicle you're driving today. Wouldn't the same argument apply to you?