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Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKS, Lincoln MKX
Feb 14, 2008 (11:27 pm)
One time, Lincoln in the 50's and sixties made world class motorcars. Now all they are are gussied up Fords. I fear that Lincoln's future will be dictated by the 65 to 75 year age group. Otherwise, there will be no MKR or any other rear drive performance oriented world class motor car. The Mks is another gussied up Ford Taurus as the Towncar is a Crown Vic and the Mkz is a Mazda 6. The Mustang will soon be out -classed by Chevy and Chrysler with their new pony cars. Both have independent rear suspensions and more horses under the hood. While the Mustang will be restyled in 2010, it will not offer an independent rear suspension. Ford doesn't have a car guy in charge of it. When they did it produced a very competitive product. Only thing the car guy never lasted long with the company. He would soon be ousted. Too bad.
#2540 of 4404 Re: Here we go again [dds010]
Feb 15, 2008 (5:51 am)
I think the LS was put out to pasture around 2002. They already had the 2003 refresh completed so that went ahead but the original business plan called for 100K units/yr and I think it was clear that wasn't going to happen (most people think it was a flawed business case from the beginning). Combine that with the budget cut and it just didn't make financial sense at the time.
The 5.4L is finally getting an upgrade but Ford hasn't released specs yet - they're playing possum with the F150 competition. At least the Navi got the 6 speed tranny a couple of years ago. It does desperately need new sheetmetal.
#2541 of 4404 Re: Lincoln [edward3608]
Feb 15, 2008 (6:00 am)
The Mks is another gussied up Ford Taurus
If nobody told you they shared a platform you'd never know it. If you're simply referring to the fact that it uses a FWD based platform with a transverse V6 then say that, but implying that it's just a Taurus is wrong (for a change).
While the Mustang will be restyled in 2010, it will not offer an independent rear suspension.
I haven't heard anything about this, insider or otherwise - what's your source? I do know that it's scheduled to get a new 5.0L aluminum block DOHC V8 making at least 400 hp. And a new interior. Have you seen the interiors of the Challenger and Camaro? They make the current mustang interior look like a top of the line Mercedes. The mustang has always been out-powered but has never been outsold.
there will be no MKR or any other rear drive performance oriented world class motor car
Mulally says you're wrong, and I think I'll believe him more than you.
#2542 of 4404 Re: Lincoln [edward3608]
Feb 15, 2008 (6:12 am)
Actually, though the platforms were closely related, the Town Car was not a gussied up Crown Vic until the 1998 re-do, when they dumped the completely separate Lincoln body. Due to the greater side tumblehome, the 1998 car lost a bit of interior width, but the TC still shared not one body panel with the CV, and had a longer wheelbase as well. Had it gotten a bit more hp, it would have been more than enough separate from the Ford even in the 98 guise. Then the total neglect set in.
I don't think the MKZ sharing a platform with a Ford is a problem at all. The issue again was also sharing the same body and most of the body panels as well, except for the superficial clip differences. The MKS is not a Taurus, with Lincoln going the distance to give it its own body, engine, wheelbase and exclusive options. The problem with the MKS is not that it is a gussied up Ford (like a Montego), but that the Taurus platform was the only choice to get a car out now, and the naturally aspirated 3.7 was the only available engine. So it is going to be panned for that. But it will sell well enough anyway.
Like Allen (Allan? Alan?) I don't understand why Ford powertrains take so long to come to market, or why it is so difficult for them to give Lincoln some exclusive extra horses. If we are still hearing "just wait and see what's coming" in 2010 or so, then Lincoln may also go the way of Oldsmobile and Packard.
#2543 of 4404 Re: Lincoln [gregg_vw]
Feb 15, 2008 (7:35 am)
It's Allen (or as I like to say it's spelled the right way, as opposed to Mulally who spells it the wrong way).
I agree that they've only got a couple of years to catch up. But every indication I've seen is that Fields and Kuzack are really fast tracking important projects. I just heard the new 5.0L engine referred to as a "crash" program. And we know the 09 Fusion wasn't supposed to get the 3.5L at first but now it will. You can thank Fields and Kuzack for the ideas but you can thank Mulally for the backing to do it and do it quickly.
The biggest problem is that so many things were neglected for so long that they have a lot to fix with limited resources.
#2544 of 4404 Re: Lincoln [akirby]
Feb 15, 2008 (9:07 am)
The v8 for Ford is all but dead. This is due to new CAFE standards. A World Class car has to have a V8. The MKS is to be the flag ship model with a base price of 37,800 dollars. Ford, After a few years will discontinue the Towncar. Ford believes that the direct injection V6 will produce better performance and have higher mpg. But this will not be available until early 09. Cadillac already has a direct injection V6. The Town car share similiar platform as the Crown Vic and uses a similiar suspension . It has a live axle rear suspension. The Lincoln's Towncar basic platform has been in use since at least the late 80's Most of the Towncar's sales are from the livery trade. The Dew 98 platform that the LS used is still superior to any Platform That Lincoln now uses. The dew 98 platform was too expensive for Ford to produce and sell the LS at a relatively low price. The MKR is a concept to show the future styling changes of Lincoln. Ford The front end of The 09 Mkz has a similiar grill and similiar rear quarters. The Mks has similiar styling changes when looking at the car from the side.
#2545 of 4404 Re: Lincoln [edward3608]
Feb 15, 2008 (9:28 am)
The v8 for Ford is all but dead. This is due to new CAFE standards.
No, it's not. I know of 3 new V8s currently being developed: aluminum block DOHC 5.0L to replace the 4.6L, 6.2L Boss to eventually replace the 5.4L and a new 4.4L Turbo Diesel. These will be used in RWD trucks and the mustang for now along with direct injection/turbo and NA V6s.
The MKS is not the future flagship - it's only labeled that way by default. Mulally has already confirmed that Lincoln will have new RWD platforms and that it will be engineered jointly with Ford Australia who have been making and selling RWD performance cars forever. With the impending sale of Jag this leaves the door open for Lincoln to move up with a real RWD V8 flagship but as we have gotten used to saying - not for a couple of years at least.
#2546 of 4404 Re: Lincoln [akirby]
Feb 15, 2008 (9:59 am)
Why would the 6.2 have to replace the 5.4? It seems the 6.2 would make a nice step up from the 5.4 (kind of like what GM and Chrysler/Jeep are doing with their engines).
#2547 of 4404 Re: Lincoln [gregg_vw]
Feb 15, 2008 (10:31 am)
Because it's 15 years old? The Modular V8s were tiered 4.6 -> 5.4; apparently the new V8 is going to be 5.0 -> 6.2, with the turbo 3.7L taking the place of the old 4.6L V8.
#2548 of 4404 Re: Here we go again [dds010]
Feb 15, 2008 (11:59 am)
But could anyone tell me if there were ever any plans to completly redesign the LS with a significantly improved interior, and was the 3 and 7 series fighters the only things planned. Now with the Navigator way back in 2002 the Slade overtook the Navi in horsepower ratings and now i think to myself did Ford want to even make an attempt to upgrade the 5.4, and even though the Navigator is supposedly getting the 6.2 no one at Ford has made this offical, and even of it does it will still have the body shell that goes back to 1998, Ford has to do something that beats their competition in some way. If they know that the MKZ doesnt hanlde like the CTS, 3 series, or A4 then why dont they make it the horsepower leader with some kind of exclusive feature from the MKS and why isnt the MKS the horsepower leader in it's segment...This isnt rocket science Ford