Last post on May 20, 2013 at 11:07 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views
What is this discussion about?
Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKS, Lincoln MKX
#1981 of 4169 Re: brucelink [marsha7]
Jun 13, 2007 (8:52 am)
I don't know for sure when the restyled XJ is due. Yes, 2010 is a long way off but other than the MKS, Lincoln will not have anything upscale any sooner than that even with a shot of cash from a Jag sale. The XF, due next spring looks very promising.
I agree with Akirby that the sale could mean good things for Lincoln but it will take some time. Meanwhile, my dealer continues to advertise new MKZ's for $25,995. They also sell Fords so the same salesperson who sells Focus' and Rangers is selling $26,000 Lincolns. Lincoln has a long way to go to become a luxury marque again.
#1982 of 4169 Re: I love your notes, Douglasr [gregg_vw]
Jun 13, 2007 (1:14 pm)
Unfortunately, they also tried to copy Jaguar styling in issuing new sedans, but all they managed to do was excise the grace of the old things, and put Jaguar cues on relatively boring bodies (XJ, S Type, X-Type).
Very true. The pre-2004 XJ long wheelbase was unique and beautiful. The 2004 and later versions are vastly superior in every way except styling - they look frumpy. Get past the frumpy looks and they are great cars, though. I believe it was C & D who said the combination of ride/handling may be better than Lexus, BMW, or Mercedes. All the XJ needs is a new body and a bit more standard HP and they would be near best in class overall.
The S-type was recognized as being quite stylish in 1999. Like the Lincoln LS, they had a few early issues and by the time they worked those out and made solid mechanical improvements, the styling was stale.
The X-type looked like a miniature XJ (not a good thing) and had little or none of the goodness or cache of its big brother. It struck me as a loser from the beginning.
Another thing that I think has hurt Jag is the constant rumors that it is for sale. I wouldn't drop $75k on a brand whose future is so uncertain. With the current XK, the upcoming XF, and the rumored changes to the XJ, I think they are on track product-wise. I wish Ford would decide once and for all that Jag needs to stay under the Blue Oval umbrella with the XF, XJ, and XK covering the $50 - $100,000 price range.
#1983 of 4169 High End Motoring
Jun 14, 2007 (6:56 am)
"This would leave Ford without a presence in the market for high-end motoring..." The BBC World News stated in an article by Jan Madslein about the Jaguar-Land-Rover sale. Cerberus Capital Management and Blackstone are bidders for the "Cat Box" at Ford Motor. Chrysler aquiring JLR would be a risky but also a reminiscent moment: similar to that of Walter P. Chrysler when he acquired Dodge at a firesale price and established DeSoto at the same time. Whether it would work any better for Chrysler than Ford is certainly debatable. As Labour & Manufacturing MP, Lord Bhattacharya said in Pariliament: "If Ford could not make Jaguar profitable, how can private equity..." Indeed!
But the public perception remains worldwide that without Jaguar, (and Astons) Ford has no "presence" in the high end market, Lincoln having been sorely neglected at the hand of the Big Cat. Not only does the team at the Glass House have to rebuild the brand from the ground up, they have to change public perception too...for Lincoln will inevitably have to be sold outside the U.S. at some point to compete against Cadillac, Buick, BMW, Mercedes, et.al.
According to the Federal Trade Commission, Ford Motor lost $10Mn between 1926-1935 selling Lincoln L and K chassis...keeping the brand as a loss leader. Something that Ford Motor can't afford to do in the modern era. Three of its products are successful and profitable, but the future platforms can't afford to fail...Lincoln and Ford Motor do not have the margin of error that they once enjoyed. The Firestone Tire Fiasco cost Ford more than just an inconvenient recall...it was all down-hill from there. Until today...with Ford surpassing Toyota in consumer quality indexes. That certainly has to count on one hand for more than just sales, but now they need them.
Two-Fifths of the 50 or so members comprising the descendants of Henry Ford, "The Ford Family", are wanting to cash in their chips, take their money and depart. Being that Ford stock has been stuck at $8.50 for several years, and the last roll of the dice for Ford is at hand, one can see the vote of no confidence in Bill Ford Jr. coming from his family, especially with no common stock dividend paid out. However, unlike to Firestone tire fiasco (and remember William C. Ford Sr. married a Firestone...) which could be patched up and fixed, an exodous of Ford Family members selling their shares and removing the Family hold on the voting rights would have catastrophic consquences for the company in the public eye. Any chance to revive Ford Motor, much less Lincoln would probably suffer irreversible consequences---unless the shares were sold en bloc to a single investor allied with remaining Ford Family members---banks likely would not extend any more credit to Ford Motor, and they certainly would have trouble selling their bonds.
Thus...the clock has moved closer to midnight. J.D. Powers is the one ray of hope that might put-paid to public perception about Ford and its products. If High End Motoring is ever to remain at Ford, it must do so with Lincoln---becoming the talisman for the firm and the family---putting even greater pressure on Mr. Horbury and ARM.
P.S., N.V.B.: I very much appreciate your praise for my words...and extend a kind thanks for your remarks.
(Sources: Ford Motor Company; Federal Trade Commission Report on the Motor Industry 76th Congress, Document 468, U.S. Government, 1939; Automotive News; WSJ; FT; BBC World News)
#1984 of 4169 If the Ford family
Jun 14, 2007 (10:17 am)
sells its shares, then Ford will be relegated to the trash heap of history with Oldsmobile and Plymouth...
I question your comment about JD Powers and Ford...while a rotten JD rating could spell doom quicker, a great rating will not overcome an ugly product that no one wants...
Example: If JD had been around back in the days of the AMC Gremlin and Pacer, a JD rating of A+++++++++++++ would not have added one vehicle sale, IMO...
And, I apologize for bring up such an ugly part of automotive history...
#1985 of 4169 ENJOYING MY LINCOLN AND THE ACTIVITY AT THIS FORUM
Jun 14, 2007 (11:04 pm)
It's really good to see all the posts here. Lincoln is indeed alive and well and with a little luck will have a bright future. Amusing, this week my Town Car developed a rattle outside the car, I took to the local dealership and the tech went out with me to check the sound, he was as stumped as I was so took the car in to the service Dept. to Check the car out. To both our surprise it was the rattling of the rear license plate frame, he was even kind enough to put some tape under the plate, when I asked how much was told I was good to go, I sent them a thank you note and told them I would mention to my friends and neighbors. Just bought new Cadillac DTS, so far have had an electrical system problem, resolved with a new battery at my request. Also has a rattle on the drivers side of the passenger compartment that goes away after the car has been in motion
for about a half hour, think it's temperature related, not resolved. In summary one 2005 Town Car, one loose license plate frame, One 2006 DTS bought new recently, multiple problems not all resolved yet. Go Lincoln!
Jun 20, 2007 (6:19 pm)
According to Autoweek the reason why Ford wants selling JLR is commitment to new huge investments in billions(again) to come up with new line up for both brands to be competitive in luxury car market. And there is no reason to believe that Ford will get its money back since British marques never were profitable. So Ford needs to make decision very soon about throwing more money into JLR or letting them go. If it does not sell JLR - there will be no money for core brands. Ford cannot continue wasting billions on brands which will continue be unprofitable with 90% probability.
Therefore JLR must go ASAP. I am 100% sure about. I will increase chances of Ford survival considerably because not only Ford will save billions but it will also get additional 6-7 billion dollars from sale
#1987 of 4169 And when you are
Jun 20, 2007 (6:49 pm)
in debt for 23 billion, getting an extra 6-7 billion would help a little...
I know 6-7 billion would help ME out a little...
#1988 of 4169 Re: And when you are [marsha7]
Jun 20, 2007 (11:03 pm)
It is more than 6-7 bln. because you have to consider Ford will saving another 4-5 bln simply not throwing it into JLR. Ford may be 10-12 billion ahead if sells JLR and it is almost have of debt. This kind of money is enough to turn around Lincoln, Mercury and Ford combined. Needles to say that unlike JLR FLM can be profitable.
#1989 of 4169 Re: And when you are [savetheland]
Jun 21, 2007 (8:07 am)
Land Rover is profitable, a couple of sources figure around a billion a year, but Jaguar is in such sad shape that Ford will have to include LR just to get rid of Jag.
#1990 of 4169 Could L/R and Jag...
Jun 21, 2007 (9:57 am)
...stand on their own?