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Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKS, Lincoln MKX
#1615 of 4405 Re: What about... [akirby]
Jan 26, 2007 (8:00 am)
There is a difference, correct, but it is only a gradation just slightly away from rebadging...since so many of the body panels are the same, the mounting points are the same, the glass openings are the same. The different engine does little toward true differentiation, because last year, the Zephyr had the exact same engine, and soon the Fusion/Milan will need to offer the same 3.5 as MKZ in order to remain competitive. So, you have badge engineering on one end of the spectrum (Fusion/Milan, 500/Montego, F150/Mark LT, Edge/MKX, etc.) and shared platforms or architecture but with trule model differentiation on the other end (Fusion/Edge, LS/Type S, Mazda3/Volvo s40, MKS/S80, etc).
Cars like MKZ have barely moved away from the badge engineering end of the spectrum. But again, it was the best effort Ford could offer under the circumstances, and a lot of MKZ owners don't care about...or don't even notice...the close similarity to Fusion, so it wasn't a bad move for Lincoln. Still, Lincoln cannot afford to keep issuing models on the cheap like MKX, MKZ and Mark LT. Hopefully, the MKR is a portend of better things to come...and hopefully as well it will get here before Lincoln is pushed out of the marketplace by Cadillac and others (the 2008 CTS leaps way ahead of the MKZ).
#1616 of 4405 Re: What about... [gregg_vw]
Jan 26, 2007 (8:08 am)
Lincoln has already announced the 3.7L version of the new Duratec which will be Lincoln only, and Horbury said starting with the MKS Lincoln would get 100% unique sheetmetal. They just have to survive for a couple more years. I believe Fields and Mulally (can we just start calling them FM?) have already given marching orders to stop the obvious cost cutting and instead add more features with better designs because you can't outcheap the Koreans and Chinese.
I think the 09 models will really tell us how well they execute the strategy.
#1617 of 4405 Re: What about... [akirby]
Jan 26, 2007 (9:47 am)
"I believe Fields and Mulally (can we just start calling them FM?)"
Well, since Mulally is the big cheese, we should call them the "MF-ers" I think.
#1618 of 4405 Re: What about... [gregg_vw]
Jan 26, 2007 (9:53 am)
"before Lincoln is pushed out of the marketplace by Cadillac and others (the 2008 CTS leaps way ahead of the MKZ"
Just think - the CTS was a pipe dream when the LS was released, began to compete head-to-head with the 5-Series, came close to beating it in several comparos, won Motor Trend COY and brought Lincoln's reputation up several notches.
Now, the CTS is what the LS could have been and the LS is history and Lincoln has NOTHING to compete with the Europeans OR Cadillac for that matter. You just cant say the emmkayzee competes with the ceeteeess. The CTS is a luxury-sport sedan. The MKZ is a castrated luxo-Mazda.
Gee, I wonder if Cadillac loses money on every CTS they sell like some people say Ford did with the LS. My guess is NO. As for the emmkatarr - it is a non-sequitor. It will never be produced. Something like it maybe in around 2012 or so. Til then we can buy a Mazda-Lincoln or maybe in a year or two a Volvo-Lincoln.
To illustrate just how bad it is, Lincoln has begun featuring the emmkayrrr on its website. A car you will never be able to buy is what they are featuring. Do they really think people will buy the second-rate stuff they're selling now because they produced a winning one-off concept car?
#1619 of 4405 Re: What about... [heyjewel]
Jan 26, 2007 (10:13 am)
George - why are you so sure they won't build a car like the MKR?
#1620 of 4405 Re: What about... [akirby]
Jan 26, 2007 (11:09 am)
I'm not sure of much. But I am sure you'll never be able to buy a mkr. By that I mean as it is pictured now on the Lincoln site. That's what I said - they're featuring a car you'll never be able to buy. I think you'll agree with that.
Now, they might, check, probably WILL design and build something based on the mkr design. Maybe as close as the Z is to the original Zephyr concept, though I doubt that. I think the rear end will need to be substantially redesigned for crash-worthiness. And I hope they tone down the cowcatcher on the front a bit.
I hope they do, it is an exciting look and Lord knows they need something exciting. Tell u what though, I think it'll be a LOT more expensive than the LS or MKS, so it'll be a moot point for me.
#1621 of 4405 Re: What about... [heyjewel]
Jan 26, 2007 (12:28 pm)
Obviously the front grille will be toned down but to their credit they took production capability into account when designing the MKR concept. That's why it has regular rear doors instead of suicide doors, e.g. and it's not built on some exotic platform.
I *think* we'll see a RWD sedan with at least 400 hp with at least 5 of the 7 Lincoln styling cues that looks much closer to the MKR than previous Lincoln concepts.
That and $5 will get you a grande soy latte.
#1622 of 4405 Re: What about... [akirby]
Jan 26, 2007 (2:35 pm)
What they need is at least one model with 7 of the 7 styling cues, one that is bold and polarizing. One that George can think is too way out or deficient in rear design while I think it is perfect the way it is (and would buy it in a second if it were only available). The time for "toning down" is long, long past. If they do it again, three or four years hence, they are done. The end. (And good riddance if they continue to be so clueless.)
#1623 of 4405 Re: What about... [gregg_vw]
Jan 26, 2007 (4:43 pm)
I'm told the MKR has all 7 of the 7 cues in it, which is why it's extreme.
#1624 of 4405 Re: What about... [nvbanker]
Jan 27, 2007 (6:58 am)
The MKR was built specifically to showcase the 7 styling cues for the public and probably more importantly, the designers.