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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences 2004-2009 Toyota Prius Prices Paid and Buying Experience
1971 messages, Last post on Sep 10, 2009 at 9:17 AM
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Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum and am trying to decide between the Toyota Prius and the Corolla. In my opinion all the math points to the Corolla hands down. What did you factor in to make your decision in favor of the Prius? Here's what I came up with...... The cheapest Toyota Prius I can find near me is $24,000. The EPA says the combined fuel economy is 46 miles per gallon. If I drive 12,000 miles per year that would mean I am using 260.87 gallons of gas. Even at a price of $5.00 per gallon my annual fuel cost is only $1304.35. The Corolla S model with way more options than the prius is about $17,000 and the EPA says is gets a combined 29 miles per gallon. That's 413.79 gallons at my assumed $5.00 per gallon which equals $2,068.95 annual fuel cost. This is $764.60 more per year than the Prius but am I REALLY SAVING ANY MONEY??? I don't think so....here's why....... The Prius is $24,000 vs. the Corolla's $17,000. If I financed them both for 60 months at 6% interest rate, I will have spent $27,839 on the Prius and only $19,719 on the Corolla. So the Prius actually costs $8,120 more to finance. I am saving $3,823 in gas money for the entire 5 years but if you subtract the gas savings from the financing debacle you are actually IN THE HOLE -$4,297. These numbers were assuming gas was $5.00 per gallon for the whole 5 years, who's to know. Also, I was putting both cars at 6% interest even though the Corolla actually has 2.9% financing available for 60 months through Toyota. That would skew the numbers even better in the Corolla's favor. So my question is...what made you guys buy the Prius? I'm not getting it.
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Replying to: indianajohns (Jun 07, 2008 1:32 pm) There are at least two possible answers. One is not having to visit your friendly gas station as often with the satisfaction of not supporting those belligerent oil producing nations as much. Another is that owning the Prius is more "green" friendly. |
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Replying to: indianajohns (Jun 07, 2008 1:32 pm) Personally, I'm an eco-snob and downplay my Prius ownership, instead boasting of the 100 miles a week I ride my 2000 mpg power-assist bike instead of driving my car. I have a bumper sticker on my bike, "F--k Prius drivers". I do love my Prius, though. Alas, we must all learn to live with paradox (smiling). ------------ Back to your question, I've long argued the same thing, so I appreciate the mind you've put to this question. I'd love to buy a Prius with a 70 hp turbogasoline engine instead of the hybrid drivetrain for about $7,000? less. Especially since I drive long hwy stretches where the hybrid engineering (regen, Atkinson cycle, CVT, idle-stop, etc) has diminished advantage. But here are the two factors auguring toward the Prius, at least for typical 50/50 city/hwy drivers: 1) Gasoline futures: An average gasoline price of $5/gallon over the next 5 years is shockingly optimistic. Gasoline could go to any price whatever in any time whatever. $10/gallon by next summer is by no means inconceivable. They pay that in Europe--why not here? I would think there is no doubt whatever that it will hit $10 within 5 years. So I would work the numbers using a variety of gasoline price assumptions. I bet you come up with a breakeven point of about $7.50/gallon average, just on the gasoline trade-off. And I would think that that is as good a guess as any. 2) Depreciation: With gasoline going through the roof the Prius will be as good as gold in resale value. I can give a perfect example: In 2002 I bought a 19mpg 02Honda Odyssey for $33,000 OTD and a 29mpg 02Honda Civic EX for $16,000 OTD (got a bad deal on the Ody and a fantastic deal on the Civic as it was remainder. Who wanted a Civic with gasoline at $1.00/gallon?). Today the Civic is worth slightly more than the Ody, both about 10k. The difference between the Prius' 44realworld mpg and the Corolla's realworld mpg of 29-30mpg is the same proportion as the Ody to the Civic . . . . So I'd depreciate your hypothetical Corolla by 2/3-3/4 and the Prius by 1/4-1/3 over 60 months, as a trial assumption. The Corolla could lose $10-12k and the Prius might only lose $6k. That's pretty much your differential right there. Maybe worse. They may be scrapping Corollas, just like they're scrapping RVs now, who knows? BTW, for absolute spot-on real world mileage figures go to Consumer Reports. If you do a lot of smooth, steady hwy driving I'd opt for a Fit or Yaris over the Prius, unless you have your heart set on certain options not available in these models. Also, edmunds.com has a feature called TCO, True Cost to Own, for all models. You have to play with the assumptions a bit, but obviously you have the math to do so. Toyota is said to be offering the iQ in January. If they make it with their 1.0 liter, 70hp engine, it'll actually get slightly better mileage than the Prius on the highway, low 50s. I'd guess the overall mpg would be very close to Prius. Content yourself by looking up mileage figures for some Toyota models, the 1.0 liter Aygo for example, offered in England: toyota.uk.com. Remember an Imperial gallon is 1.2 times more gasoline than an American gallon. Seating 3 adults +1 child, the iQ is 2/3 the car, but about half the price of Prius, I'd guess. Eventually we'll have plug-in hybrid electrics with about a 40 mile all-electric range backed up by about a 40hp turbogasoline or turbodiesel engine good for 70-80 mph. They'll get the equivalent of 100 mpg. That'll be about the end of the line for conventional cars. By then you'll hardly ever see a car with fewer than 4 people riding in it. And there will be four bikes, some or all electric, hanging off the bike rack. Darn, I do go on. If you've read this far I appreciate your perserverance.
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Replying to: bob104 (Jun 07, 2008 3:16 pm) http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/buying-advice/most-fuelefficien- t-cars-206/index.htm |
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Replying to: bob104 (Jun 07, 2008 3:16 pm) I will retort that NADA currently lists both the 2005 Prius and 2005 Corolla at almost exactly $4,000 less than their new MSRP. Also, when the electric hybrids come out won't the gas/electric hybrids also be obsolete? When the Core2 Duo processor was introduced, did it not make the Pentium 3 as well as the Pentium 4 processors obsolete? I may wait it out. Kind of like I waited out the BlueRay vs HD DVD war. |
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Replying to: indianajohns (Jun 07, 2008 4:31 pm) The car industry has been slow to offer the huge line ofconventionally-powered true subcompacts, minis, that they offer in Europe. They'd love to sell you a Corolla today and a PHEV in two years. But with sales plummeting for bigger cars and a frenzy for Yaris, Fit and Prius they are going to have to sell minis if they are going to be able to sell anything. The average car in the US only gets about 20 mpg. A used 30-32mg Corolla, like my used 30mpg Civic is still a hot item, saving about $1000/year in gasoline over John Doe's Taurus. And so it will be with 66mpg? PHEVs vs. today's 44mpg Prius. BTW, there's diminishing returns on fuel efficiency. 66mpg vs. 44 mpg only saves 90 gallons/year. The best efficiency is car pooling. Your Prius can get "220mpg" with 5 riders. The comparison I would make in order to project depreciation of a 30mpg 08Corolla vs. a 44mpg 08Prius (50% better mpg) is not 05Corolla vs. 05Prius (both lost only $4,000, but the Corolla lost a larger percentage) but a 20mpg 05 Camry vs. a 30 mpg 05 Corolla (also 50% better mpg). We're in fairly rarefied air here. I don't think anyone, even Edmunds' TCO, can project future depreciation in a marketplace that is so unpredictable. You just have to make the best assumption you can. Mine is that an 08 Prius will lose less value than any new car you can buy today. Just to throw in a monkey wrench, currently it costs, what $4000?, to replace the Prius battery. That means you may need to add in a set-aside cost of about 4 cents/mile, 3 cents in CA with it's 150k warranty, for the battery expenditure. Somewhere, maybe $5-7/gallon, the Prius has a lower TCO, true cost to own, than does a comparable 30 mpg car. Comparing to a 40 mpg mini, the Prius just can't pan out. Bring on the minis. Maybe in January . . .
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Replying to: bob104 (Jun 07, 2008 5:57 am)
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Replying to: indianajohns (Jun 07, 2008 4:31 pm)
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Replying to: prelec (Jun 07, 2008 6:17 pm) Call Honda or Toyota customer service and tell them you want to buy a 1.0 liter, 70hp conventional car, or a 50 realworld-mpg Fit with the Insight hybrid drivetrain. First automaker to bring it on gets your business. Credit crunch, housing collapse, $4/gallon gasoline. They have the cars. Demand that they sell them by waiting/boycotting. |
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For those who are interested in more buying experience info and pricing data... I ordered a silver "standard" style (the lowest priced style) from Galaxy Toyota in Eatontown, NJ on May 10. I was told there would be a 4-6 week wait until it arrived. I got it yesterday (June 6), which was one day short of 4 weeks. Here is the price breakdown: MSRP - 21,500 Carpet Floor Mats - 199 Destination Charge - 660 Dealer Prep Stuff (pinstripe, wheel well covers, some other stuff I've forgotten) - 50 7% Sales Tax - 1568.63 NJ Tire Fee - 7.50 Registration Title Fee - 57.50 Documentary Fee - 209 Online Registration Fee - 8.30 Total 24,259.93 There were a couple points where we were able to negotiate. Even though I didn't want any of the Dealer Prep stuff, they said they were under contract to Toyota to provide it. The starting price I was quoted for that was $450, so even though I didn't want it at all, I guess $50 is not too bad. Plus they do some ID number window etching for vehicle protection as a standard practice, but I said I didn't want that either. So even though the car came with it, they did not charge me the normal $189 for that. I had done an internet inquiry and talked with a couple of other area dealers who made it sound like it was impossible to even get the "standard" style. When I went into Galaxy in person, they worked with me to get me what I wanted. And based on what I've seen here and from what I heard from the other dealers I talked to, I think the price I paid was reasonable given the demand for this vehicle. At least I hope so. Based on my experience in buying this Prius, I would recommend Galaxy Toyota and the salesman and sales manager I worked with, Asad Kahn and Mike Kelerher. BTW, when we picked up the car last night, they told us that there is now a 4 month wait at that dealership to receive a Prius after ordering it. They are only allocated 2 or 3 a month. I'm glad I ordered mine when I did! |
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