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Nissan Maxima v. Mazda Millenia

211 messages,  Last post on Aug 15, 2009 at 9:10 PM

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What is this discussion about? Nissan Maxima, Mazda Millenia, Sedan

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#183 of 211 getz & speed68 by tomekk Sep 08, 2002 (4:47 pm)
Guys, if facts don't convince you... there is nothing I can do. You just stick your fingers in your ears and go la-la-la. If you have hard time believing etc., go test 325i, you'll see. I have nothing to add, I really don't have that much time to waste on folks with such strong dogma. You're really ultra-orthodox ... ah, Maxima, the best car in the world. Haha. TK
#184 of 211 Tomekk by getz1 Sep 08, 2002 (5:14 pm)
Dogma?? Best car in the world?? Man, I doubt anyone who owns a max is espousing that mantra. Are you assuming that since I like the max more than the mazda, that I also find it to be superior to all other vehicles. Strong extrapolation dont ya think? And what facts are you talking about, and regarding which issue? Kudos, however, on using Dogma and ultra-orthodox in the same post...drop your address and I'll mail you a gold star. I believe at soome point over the last few days we had pretty decent dialogue regarding salient points of both vehicles. My whole point has been that for 26 grand the maxima is quite possibly the best new car deal of the year if you want a roomy, fast sedan with a host of amenities. Now if you care to refute this statement feel free, but please employ a tad more logic than was required of your last post. I do believe if you read through my previous posts, you won't find many disparaging comments about the millenia, however you have stated over and over how terrible the maxima is, how hard it is to keep in a straight line, how cheap the interior is, etc. Now who is spewing dogma? And I am still calling BS on the 325i reving too high at 75 mph, and since I have owned one, and driven others at this same speed, I think you may have been embelishing slightly. Now if you excuse me I am going to retire to my study where upon which I will engage in my favorite past time... putting my fingers in my ears, and repeating "la-la-la". So long and thanks for all the fish. -Getz P.S. If you haven't read Adams, I think the DVD is most likely doing you a huge injustice. Also you might want to give Kurt Vonnegut a read, or Terry Pratchet who writes in a very similar vein as Douglas Adams. In any case I'll stick to those monty python boys for pixelated dark humor, thank you.
#185 of 211 Getz1 by tomekk Sep 09, 2002 (3:57 am)
1. You are extrapolating. I'm VERY far from any stars, gold, white on blue or whatever. You couldn't be more wrong. 2. Let's get this straight: you like your Maxima. I like my Millenia. I test drove both in 2001 - and liked the Millenia better, based on handling (slaloms well!), more than enough power, interior ambience and exterior looks. So, I bought it. I felt better in it than in the Maxima for a number of reasons - I'm sure you feel better in your Maxima. That's fine, my wife like her Chevy Venture much more than the Millenia. For different reasons. And you brought up the slalom thing - so I found Edmunds numbers that show 2001 Millenia better that 2000 Maxima with 222HP. That's a fact.   3. 325. C'mon, just test drive one with stickshift and look at RPM at 75mph. Tell me what they are. I'm waiting.   Peace?   Tomek   P.S. Good reading recemmendation. I've been reading Kurt Vonnegut since early high school (although I've re-read most of it in college just to understand it better - starting with Breakfast of Champions) and I never could get into Terry Pratchet... but I've tried. I've read Adams. Never seen the show, so I'm catching up. Recommendation for you: Stanislaw Lem. Start with Invincible, Solaris, and Pilot Pirx.
#186 of 211 Car and Driver - Oct 2002 by fwatson Sep 10, 2002 (9:16 am)
I will only quote Motor Trend on this, and do not intend to engage in an argument. This is simply THEIR conclusion, not the entire one page article:   Page 148: BEGIN ARTICLE   Nissan Maxima SE - More power, more gears, more speed, less distinction. By Tony Swan   (Skip to conclusion of article)   Moreover, although more muscle certainly lends haste to the Maxima's dynamic traits, it also adds torque steer, particularly in editions equipped with manual transmissions. It's not as unruly as in the old Saab 9-3 Viggen, but it's there. Although this is one of the quickest sedans for the money, it once again illustrates the limitations of front-wheel drive.   That's the Maxima's dilemma. Surrounded by increasing numbers of rear- and all wheel drive competitors, it has reached its development zenith. And in fact, this is the last ride for the current platform. The next generation will share the latest Altima's foundations, a change that should produce improvement but will leave Nissan's top sedan committed to the performance drawbacks of front-wheel drive.   As a footnote, we reflect on our reaction to the original Maxima (C/D April 1981), which debuted as an upscale version of the 810 sedan: "What we have here seems to be a clear case of over-Americanization." The more things change...   END OF ARTICLE   My only point is that we keep hearing how the MM is on it's last year and outdated. The name Maxima may go on, but it will not be the same vehicle described in this article, nor the one we have been discussing here.
#187 of 211 fwatson by speedracer3 Sep 10, 2002 (9:54 am)
Let's get the facts straight:   The Maxima is evolving, just like the Altima did. The Millenia on the other hand has reached the end of the road.
#188 of 211 fwatson by getz1 Sep 10, 2002 (3:46 pm)
Actually you are quoting car&driver. Here's what motor trend had to say:  "The Maxima SE six-speed we drove clearly falls on the sporty side of the sport/luxury continuum. Its 255-hp engine isn't as peaky as the Acura TL Type-S', one of its main competitors, although it doesn't quite have the Acura's long legs. The Maxima gives up some ride comfort in the name of better handling, but Nissan engineers found as good a balance as possible with that beam axle. You feel highway expansion strips, but not jarringly so, and there's some payoff in the form of cornering prowess.   Bottom line: For those who don't flock to the latest automotive fashion, and are willing to trade off a bit of comfort for better-than-average performance, the Maxima may be the bargain of '02."    Also, autoweek commented: (08:30 Aug. 21, 2002) "Nissan Maxima: Maximal Buzz" Nissan's flagship is a fun-to-drive family sedan THE 2002 NISSAN MAXIMA IS CAUGHT IN AN automotive Catch-22. While it wears the label of flagship for Nissan, the car is no longer the company's biggest, as the 2003 Altima released earlier this year is slightly larger. And while the Maxima was last significantly redesigned for 2000, we know the next-generation Maxima now on the drawing board will be built on the Altima platform. So while Maxima is not necessarily the Nissan family's redheaded stepchild, it clearly is no longer the favorite son. But that doesn't mean the car isn't fun to drive. It is gobs of fun, due mostly to an outstanding engine. The 3.5-liter V6 pumps out 255 hp (15 more than Altima, so there is at least a little consideration to the "flagship" moniker) and 246 lb-ft of torque. In fact, the smooth, torquey six-cylinder that boasts 15 hp more than last year's model (due in part to a new continuously variable valve timing and adaptive intake manifold geometry) was noted as one of the best features by nearly every person responding to our survey. One reader said, "The way the car accelerates from a dead stop brings a smile to my face every time." The 255 ponies mated with a fine six-speed manual transmission propelled the 3224-pound car from 0 to 60 mph in 6.21 seconds and completed the quarter-mile in 14.77 seconds at 95.5 mph. Both times and speeds are very good considering Maxima is a five-passenger family sedan. We also heard comments about torque steer, but found nothing of the sort with our test vehicle. What we did find was the standard 17-inch rubber was no match for the engine's torque. Rev the engine up to about 2500 rpm (redline is 6500), drop the clutch and you can lay two even black stripes of rubber for more than 40 feet; grab second under full throttle you'll spin the tires again. If you're hard on the throttle, you can chirp the tires in third. And speaking of third gear, the engine has enough torque to start off in third, if you happen to be unable to find first." "The Maxima is more than just an engine. The cabin is spacious and relatively quiet even at freeway speeds, and the seats are wide, firm and comfortable with plenty of lateral support. There is ample leg- and headroom for both front- and rear-seat passengers, and the trunk, with 15.1 cubic feet, is spacious. If there's a weak point with Maxima it is with the brakes. The four-wheel power-assisted discs needed 130 feet to stop from 60 mph, which would classify it as no better than average for midsize sedans. (For comparison, in our recent test of the Toyota Camry we completed the same maneuver in 118 feet, which is in sports car territory.) There is very little brake dive, which speaks to the car's firm suspension, but we noticed plenty of body roll tossing the car through our slalom course. Stiffer antiroll bars would be a help. But these are relatively minor complaints about what is really a strong performer. With a base price of $25,989, there's really no other player in the four-door, five-passenger sedan category that offers a six-speed transmission. Maxima may not be the favorite son, but it has qualities we can love and appreciate just the same."    As you can see the torque steer that C&D commented on, should not be a factor with the LSD. Also, it is odd to me how C&D bemoans the maxima yet it out performs the majority of its contenders at a price that is thousands less. As far as the redesign, hopefully in five years people will still recognize the maxima name, where as the millenia may not fare so well.
#189 of 211 Article by mirth Sep 10, 2002 (3:48 pm)
I read that article, which was Car & Driver, not Motor Trend. The author was basically complaining that the Maxima is not a G35 or a BMW 3-series. Yeah, it's also like $4000 to $12000 less expensive. IMHO, it's the best mid-size sedan you can get in the $25K area. WRX is too small, the Grand Prix is uglier with less amenities.   The Millenia is more of a Honda Accord EX competitor. If I didn't care too much about get-up-and-go, I'd seriously consider it. But if that were the case I'd probably end up with a Camry. Yawn.
#190 of 211 Error by fwatson Sep 10, 2002 (4:18 pm)
I changed the title to show Car and Driver, but missed the one referrence to Motor Trend until time to edit had expired. I saw no reason to delete the post and completely redo it to correct that mistake.   As I said at the bottom of that post, the point is to show that we are dealing with two outdated cars here, not one. And carrying a name over to a totally new car does not change the fact that the 2003 Maxima is a last year design as is the 2002 Millenia. As to comparing to the CamCords, that is as appropriate for the Max as the MM. The 240HP Accord will be a very worthy drag-racing opponent for the Max. And owning a 2001 MM, I can assure you it has none of the "yawn" factor you try to insinuate by the Camry comment.
#191 of 211 by getz1 Sep 10, 2002 (5:11 pm)
Unfortunately the 240 hp 4 door Accord will be only offered with an automatic. zero to sixty times that I have seen are around the 6.7-7.0 second range, still much slower than the maxima. as far as the max being totally new in '04, it will keep the 3.5L V6, most likely with very similar hp, yet most likely gain some luxury flab. I don't know if outdated describes the max or the millenia, but I do feel the MM will suffer more on the resale end simply because people will grow unaccustomed to the name plate. Hopefully I'll still have a few more years before I feel like the performance has become status quo for the market range. You've got to admit that 14's in the quarter mile is pretty impressive for a 26 thousand dollar grocery getter. My favorite story is non-chalantly dusting an over-zealous highschool kid in his 5.0 L mustang at a stop-light, while I had a car load of friends. The look on his face was hilarious... no flames, I let off the throttle once I touched 50 mph in a 45. Later, -Getz P.S. I posted on the 3-series board regarding rpms at 75 mph. We'll see what the owners think.

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