Ask the Car People.SM


Honda Civic vs Volkswagen Jetta

498 messages,  Last post on Mar 11, 2013 at 12:20 PM

You are in the Volkswagen Jetta Forum.

What is this discussion about? Honda Civic, Volkswagen Jetta, Sedan

Messages Page 47 of 51

#456 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [ruking1] by targettuning

Mar 12, 2007 (9:44 am)

Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 12, 2007 6:54 am)
Yes, there are items found on only gasoline engines and not on diesels. Mainly they involve ignition components and spark plugs. Years ago I could have pointed to the distributor..the coil...distributor cap and rotor...plug wires...ignition module within the distributor and finally the plugs themselves all as potential trouble points the diesel didn't have. However, most of these individual components have been eliminated with inception of "coil on plug" modules that effectively do away with everything except the plugs and they now last upwards of 100K miles. So for all practical purposes the ignition system on a modern car has been so simplified that ignition problems (due to the sheer number of components ripe for possible individual failure)has all but been eliminated. Frankly the ignition system was about all the diesel has over a gas engine in its favor (with regard to potential extra repair items and costs) in as much as a diesel doesn't have one. A diesel does have that expensive injector pump, at least I guess they still have them. And instead of a $2.00 spark plug you have glow plugs that cost how much? Oh, I almost forgot what about that expensive turbo? (or two as on the new Ford Powerstroke)?? Virtually everything else is common..both have starter motors ( more expensive on a diesel due to it needing to be more powerful to crank a diesel)..alternators (more expensive on a diesel due to that extra powerful starting system and maybe two batteries)..water pump and radiator (possibly more expensive on a diesel due to the need for being larger to cope with the extra heat generated. You have all the internal components e.g crankshaft,bearings,pistons, connecting rods, valves etc. except all these pieces are made stronger due to the high compression of a diesel(costing more of course),and lets not forget extra large (and extra expensive fuel and possibly oil filters). And finally, as both you and I have stated labor costs are likely more due to the specalized mechanic needed to do any work on a diesel. They MAY last longer (I am not talking commercial truck diesels)between the need for internal rebuilds..BUT my last 1987 Ford taurus had 293,000 miles when I sold it last fall and the new owner drove it away. Most modern gas engines can do 100K miles without trouble and 200K with regular maintainance. I should add,it (my Taurus) used no oil did not smoke and was quiet...so aside from fuel economy what benefit a diesel? I will finish by stating I LIKE diesels and would like to be able to buy one in the brand of my choice but the argument a diesel isn't more expensive to maintain and repair than a gas engine..nah.

#457 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [targettuning] by ruking1

Mar 12, 2007 (10:11 am)

Replying to: targettuning (Mar 12, 2007 9:44 am)
..."$2.00 spark plug you have glow plugs that cost how much? "...
 
I just about fell out getting the price for 4 each spark plugs NGK PZFR6F-11. 17.03 per, retail = $68.12. Of course you can google.
 
Glow plugs are not a "scheduled maintenance" type item, such as Honda Civic spark plugs. But $60. per 4 each. Truth is you can replace just one or up to 4.
 
Congradulations. Got to hand it to you, 293k on a FORD Taurus!! Woo Hoo! What do you swag was your mpg? It might be a stretch to assume you had NO unscheduled maintenance!? EVERYONE I knew with a Ford Taurus had very expensive issues, well below even 100,000 miles. My neighbor of at least 18 years, got Fords exclusively. He was/is almost totally meticulous in DIY. Yet, he had expensive issues on every one of his Ford's. His OCI's were 3/5 k and he used Motorcraft oil and filters. So the truth is I have helped him in his DIY. He of course wondered to himself and out loud at times, how I even considered going to 15,000 to 25,000 mile OCI's, but again he has helped me with all of mine.
 
Now if my Honda Civic gets to 315,000 miles (3 timing belt changes, 105k miles per) I'd be a happy camper. My goal is keep this in operation as long as possible even past 315k.
 
On the VW, past my initial misgivings, is seems to be no brainer at 90,000 to go to 300,000 miles. The timing belt change is due at 100,000 miles. If folks are interested I will report. But I have seen my timing belt guru do 15 of them, so I do not anticipate anything out of the ordinary, i.e., road hypnosis

#458 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [ruking1] by targettuning

Mar 12, 2007 (12:09 pm)

Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 12, 2007 10:11 am)
I seldom bought plugs anywhere but an auto part store where you can buy Bosch platinum in a variety of electrode numbers from 1 to 4 for maybe $5-6.00 per plug for the 4 electrode version and lesser electrodes for something less. I did pay something over $60.00 for six plugs recently for our Dodge Stratus...this at the dealer while the car was in for something else. I don't know if one can even get non-platinum plugs yet but they should be fairly cheap at Pep Boys.
 With regards to the Taurus first I have a question..what does "swag" mean? But fuel economy was reasonable on most of the six or seven Sable/Taurus I owned. Around 20 in town and I saw as much as 29-30 on several long (once to Dallas Tx from Pa and once to Florida from Pa)trips. All were the 3.0 liter Vulcan engine and none of them required anything except alternators, waterpumps, on starter motor, and oil changes. The 87 wagon had the highest mileage but I also had an 87 LX sedan earlier that had 190K miles when sold.It too ran fine. Additionally there was an 87 Sable wagon the had around 160K miles when sold. The biggest(most expensive) issue were automatic transmissions. The sedan had the original transmission when sold 190K the Taurus wagon had a transmission explode at around 180K miles and it was replaced with a reman. The Sable was only a bit over 100K when the original went and the salvage yard replacement was on its way out at 160K. Yeah there were other issues, lots of them along the way but the 3.0 Vulcan V-6 in my opinion is/was one of Fords best.

#459 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [targettuning] by ruking1

Mar 12, 2007 (12:16 pm)

Replying to: targettuning (Mar 12, 2007 12:09 pm)
Scientific Wild Ass Guess. SWAG
 
First off I am a tad confused, You got 293k miles on one or several? Your follow up posts indicate several. Again, correct me if I am wrong.
 
I don't know how to say this but; alternators, starters, batteries, water pumps are sort of unscheduled, BUT scheduled maintenance items. However, anecdotally they do last however long they do last, i.e., do have a cost per cycle so to speak. If anyone is confused by this seemingly double talk, let me know. DIY folks and maintenance types do understand.
 
One of the things about 4 bangers is the timing belt change at app 100/105k. The good news, belts are more precise and obviously changed at the scheduled intervals refresh for another 100/105 mile cycle. The bad news is they stretch and can break and the design.
 
The older A-3 gen VW Jetta's put the water pump out of line. So in effect a water pump is good to go to at least 250,000 miles. BUT if it doesn't, you do not have to change the timing belt and is a simple ( less than 20 min) procedure vs a timing belt procedure of 2/6 hours. Both Honda (75 plus shipping) and A-4 gen (60 plus shipping) put the water pump in line. So even though it can be good to go to 200,000/250,000 miles it makes sense to change the water pump (early) at the 100/150 mile cycle (SAME LABOR COST). The reason is IF it does leak you have to perform the same belt change to change the water pump.

#460 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [ruking1] by targettuning

Mar 13, 2007 (4:39 am)

Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 12, 2007 12:16 pm)
To help clear things up then...a 1987 Taurus wagon = 293K miles. a 1987 Taurus LX sedan = approx 188K miles a 1986 Sable wagon = approx 160K miles. I owned about 6 or 7 of these from the 1986 to 1989 model years but these three reached the highest mileage before disposing of/selling them. I bought them used after they were more than a couple of years old and drove the hell out of them. They fit my needs back then especially the station wagon versions. I kept the 87 wagon with 293K the longest (13 years). I never computed the cost to own any car I had but remember some were more problematic than others. When you keep a car as long as I kept some of these replacing alternators etc is inevitable. The only one that stands out was the 87 LX sedan which had an immense amount of small to medium problems mostly electrical (power window motors..power locks...climate control/AC wiring etc) it was in the shop more than any car I have ever owned however the Vulcan 3.0 V-6 ran flawlessly on all.

#461 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [targettuning] by ruking1

Mar 13, 2007 (8:00 am)

Replying to: targettuning (Mar 13, 2007 4:39 am)
Under the category of lessons learned; truly if Honda's Civic's and VW's Jetta's are STATISTICALLY better than Ford's Taurus's, then in a manner of speaking, I have set my mileage goals WAY too low.
 
Since I have in the past run app 250,000 on a 1970 VW Beetle (bought used in 1971 with 10,000 miles, sold in 1978) and on conventional oil (1.5/3k mile OCI's). Geez every time I turned around, I was changing oil. For the oil filter super freaks, it might bear mentioning, the Beetle's air cooled engine didn't even have an oil filter! It quite literally used a stainless steel "mosquito screen". Oxymoronically the motor oil was used as an air screen, pre intake manifold.
 
I also ran a 1987 Toyota Landcruiser, 4 speed manual app 250,000 miles on Mobil One 5w30 oil with 15,000 OCI's.
 
So I think I will target 420,000 miles on the Civic (4 timing belt changes) . I will keep the same targets for the Jetta. Incidently a brand new TDI diesel engine is app $4,200.

#462 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [ruking1] by 600kgolfgt

Mar 14, 2007 (4:13 pm)

Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 13, 2007 8:00 am)
So I think I will target 420,000 miles on the Civic (4 timing belt changes) . I will keep the same targets for the Jetta. Incidently a brand new TDI diesel engine is app $4,200.
 
Those are reasonable targets - the first engine in my 1987 Golf lasted 429,000 miles....

#463 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [600kgolfgt] by ruking1

Mar 14, 2007 (4:23 pm)

Replying to: 600kgolfgt (Mar 14, 2007 4:13 pm)
Ops, I probably should have clarified the targets for the Jetta, min of 5 belt changes, (500,000 miles) and more if possible. Again the design life for a TDI ALH engine is 25,000 miles (80% loading) As most folks know the good news and bad news is normal freeway speeds or an AVERAGE of 40-55 mph is probably no more that a 20-30% loading. So for me that puts the targets at the upper end of 1,000,000 to 1,250,000. So at 90,000 I have a ways to go.

#464 of 498 2009 Honda Civic or VW Jetta? by BilKop

Dec 02, 2008 (9:41 am)

Hi everyone!
I'm about to buy my first car, had (in my mind) settled on a 2009 VW Jetta S, but after reading some of the posts on the VW forums, I'm not so sure.
 
Another car I was considering is a Honda Civic, but we have one (2000), and there are many little things about it that annoy me - the tiny trunk, the noisy and bumpy ride, the ridiculous horn, and we have also had a million little things break on it, most recently the A/C which would cost a fortune to replace.
 
Any advice?

#465 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [ruking1] by ruking1

Dec 02, 2008 (10:38 am)

Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 14, 2007 4:23 pm)
..."Again the design life for a TDI ALH engine is 25,000 miles (80% loading"...
 
Change miles to HOURS.

Messages Page 47 of 51

To POST a message, please Sign In.

Advertisement

Browse by Category

Browse by Vehicle
   View All Vehicles

Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
View All Topics

Edmunds Community

Advertisement