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Honda Civic vs Volkswagen Jetta

498 messages,  Last post on Mar 11, 2013 at 12:20 PM

You are in the Volkswagen Jetta Forum.

What is this discussion about? Honda Civic, Volkswagen Jetta, Sedan

Messages Page 46 of 50

#448 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [ruking1] by targettuning

Mar 09, 2007 (1:18 pm)

Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 09, 2007 10:24 am)
Not necessarily, diesels are very expensive to work on and if you ran into some engine repairs on your diesel Jetta it would very quickly kick your carefully crafted "savings" over the Civic to hell. There are so many variables in this possible savings idea between the Jetta and Civic as to render it useless. OK maybe the fuel saving could be charted but as far as wear items..no way.

#449 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [targettuning] by ruking1

Mar 09, 2007 (1:45 pm)

Replying to: targettuning (Mar 09, 2007 1:18 pm)
In the context of my post, your last assertion is almost illogical. It would have no effect, if for example; I didn't have to pay for it. Or someone like you would. Indeed my (Civic) expenses put a hole in YOUR carefully crafted idea/argument that the Civic is cheaper to run than the Jetta. I am just talking about what ACTUALLY happened. (at like miles) Indeed Civic has 47k more miles to go to be at the same level of comparison as the Jetta.
 
Indeed, I have EVERYTHING to GAIN with the tires on the Civic going to 100,000 miles with the original alignment!? Since I did buy the replacement tires 1.5 years ago, one could say, I went into the Civic ownership with eyes fully opened. So I shall see when I actually change the tires on the Civic. Nothing at 89k on the Jetta and I already talked about 42k on the Civic.
 
Upcoming are timing belt changes, 105k/100k on both vehicles. The price is about the same. But as you point out I do have 258k left on the Civic and 211k on the Jetta till both hit 300k.

#450 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [ruking1] by ruking1

Mar 10, 2007 (10:18 am)

Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 09, 2007 1:45 pm)
Filled up after the alignment. Got 39 mpg (actually 39.2) I had been getting 38 or so. So the alignment seems to let the vehicle track better and the mpg is 1 better right after the alignment. Will see if it is a trend.

#451 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [targettuning] by renodavid

Mar 10, 2007 (10:49 am)

Replying to: targettuning (Mar 09, 2007 1:18 pm)
Could you explain in a little more detail why diesel engines are more expensive to work on? I've been looking into buying a Jetta TDI and wasn't aware of this. I'd really appreciate the help. Thanks!

#452 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [renodavid] by ruking1

Mar 10, 2007 (10:54 am)

Replying to: renodavid (Mar 10, 2007 10:49 am)
Actually they are not. The problem and opportunity is not many mechanics know how or specialize on diesels. This is also true of independent shops/vendors.
 
Right now it is similar to hybrid mechanics.
 
So as a result, some specialized shops have taken to charging a premium. It is sort of the difference between what a Toyota vs Lexus dealer charges.
 
Also Honda's brake components (in the community) have a reputation for wearing out faster than other brands. While Honda has never addressed that publicly, (to my knowledge) so I will stand corrected with any postings or links. I understand the newer models 2007 have so called beefer rotors and pads combinations. Again, I do not know many 2007's with 100,000 miles so would defer to those with those experiences.

#453 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [ruking1] by targettuning

Mar 12, 2007 (4:53 am)

Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 10, 2007 10:54 am)
While I do not have first hand knowledge of specific repair costs of gas verses diesel I BELIEVE in general diesel engines while not having all the ignition parts a gas engine has (although these parts cause very few problems these days) do have some parts that are diesel specific. Some things that are used only in a diesel...maybe a high dollar fuel injector pump?? In addition, while the internal components are similar to gas the costs are greater for labor and most probably parts. You will also probably have a harder time finding a "run of the mill" local mechanic willing to work on one. As I said I do not have first hand experience but if labor cost alone (not to mention more expensive parts) is considered they ARE more expensive to work on than gas engines.

#454 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [ruking1] by targettuning

Mar 12, 2007 (5:05 am)

Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 09, 2007 1:45 pm)
I didn't make the assertion the one verses the other would be cheaper to run only that there are so many variables that you cannot predict. Apparently you own both, a little fact I missed originally so yes you can chart them side-by-side and continue to monitor. My post was based on the assumption you owned one but speculated on the other...my mistake.

#455 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [targettuning] by ruking1

Mar 12, 2007 (6:54 am)

Replying to: targettuning (Mar 12, 2007 4:53 am)
Truly as you surmise and state, there are some "diesel" specific items. But there are truly some gasser specific ones also. We just do not normally refer to and think of those itmes as gasser specific for 97% of the passenger vehicle fleet ARE gassers.
 
For example; a very subtle shift, but a shift nonetheless, I have to/should make sure the glow plug lamp goes out before I crank it up.

#456 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [ruking1] by targettuning

Mar 12, 2007 (9:44 am)

Replying to: ruking1 (Mar 12, 2007 6:54 am)
Yes, there are items found on only gasoline engines and not on diesels. Mainly they involve ignition components and spark plugs. Years ago I could have pointed to the distributor..the coil...distributor cap and rotor...plug wires...ignition module within the distributor and finally the plugs themselves all as potential trouble points the diesel didn't have. However, most of these individual components have been eliminated with inception of "coil on plug" modules that effectively do away with everything except the plugs and they now last upwards of 100K miles. So for all practical purposes the ignition system on a modern car has been so simplified that ignition problems (due to the sheer number of components ripe for possible individual failure)has all but been eliminated. Frankly the ignition system was about all the diesel has over a gas engine in its favor (with regard to potential extra repair items and costs) in as much as a diesel doesn't have one. A diesel does have that expensive injector pump, at least I guess they still have them. And instead of a $2.00 spark plug you have glow plugs that cost how much? Oh, I almost forgot what about that expensive turbo? (or two as on the new Ford Powerstroke)?? Virtually everything else is common..both have starter motors ( more expensive on a diesel due to it needing to be more powerful to crank a diesel)..alternators (more expensive on a diesel due to that extra powerful starting system and maybe two batteries)..water pump and radiator (possibly more expensive on a diesel due to the need for being larger to cope with the extra heat generated. You have all the internal components e.g crankshaft,bearings,pistons, connecting rods, valves etc. except all these pieces are made stronger due to the high compression of a diesel(costing more of course),and lets not forget extra large (and extra expensive fuel and possibly oil filters). And finally, as both you and I have stated labor costs are likely more due to the specalized mechanic needed to do any work on a diesel. They MAY last longer (I am not talking commercial truck diesels)between the need for internal rebuilds..BUT my last 1987 Ford taurus had 293,000 miles when I sold it last fall and the new owner drove it away. Most modern gas engines can do 100K miles without trouble and 200K with regular maintainance. I should add,it (my Taurus) used no oil did not smoke and was quiet...so aside from fuel economy what benefit a diesel? I will finish by stating I LIKE diesels and would like to be able to buy one in the brand of my choice but the argument a diesel isn't more expensive to maintain and repair than a gas engine..nah.

#457 of 498 Re: long life tires..brakes...etc [targettuning] by ruking1

Mar 12, 2007 (10:11 am)

Replying to: targettuning (Mar 12, 2007 9:44 am)
..."$2.00 spark plug you have glow plugs that cost how much? "...
 
I just about fell out getting the price for 4 each spark plugs NGK PZFR6F-11. 17.03 per, retail = $68.12. Of course you can google.
 
Glow plugs are not a "scheduled maintenance" type item, such as Honda Civic spark plugs. But $60. per 4 each. Truth is you can replace just one or up to 4.
 
Congradulations. Got to hand it to you, 293k on a FORD Taurus!! Woo Hoo! What do you swag was your mpg? It might be a stretch to assume you had NO unscheduled maintenance!? EVERYONE I knew with a Ford Taurus had very expensive issues, well below even 100,000 miles. My neighbor of at least 18 years, got Fords exclusively. He was/is almost totally meticulous in DIY. Yet, he had expensive issues on every one of his Ford's. His OCI's were 3/5 k and he used Motorcraft oil and filters. So the truth is I have helped him in his DIY. He of course wondered to himself and out loud at times, how I even considered going to 15,000 to 25,000 mile OCI's, but again he has helped me with all of mine.
 
Now if my Honda Civic gets to 315,000 miles (3 timing belt changes, 105k miles per) I'd be a happy camper. My goal is keep this in operation as long as possible even past 315k.
 
On the VW, past my initial misgivings, is seems to be no brainer at 90,000 to go to 300,000 miles. The timing belt change is due at 100,000 miles. If folks are interested I will report. But I have seen my timing belt guru do 15 of them, so I do not anticipate anything out of the ordinary, i.e., road hypnosis

Messages Page 46 of 50

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