Last post on Dec 25, 2011 at 1:37 PM
You are in the Toyota Camry
What is this discussion about?
Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Sedan
Jul 31, 2000 (9:06 pm)
True, it's all a matter of defining "sporty".
I was just saying MT/ AT is not the only factor in determining if a car is sporty or not, and you seem to agree with me by saying a Ferrari can be sporty with AT.
In that case, the Accord V6 can't be 'unsporty by default' just because it has a slushbox.
Obviously, the lack of a MT is a big downside... and hence I'd look at the 626, Passat, and Maxima before I look at the Accord. Still, even with a AT it is still relatively sportier than most other mid-sized sedans .....
ps - if the Mob come for me I'd have the Yakutza to backme up ... it's ok = )
Jul 31, 2000 (10:02 pm)
Any bread and butter sedan with a slushbox can not be sporty to me. Granted the accord handles well and all, but still, hondas auto transmissions don't offer much other than great reliability. I know that some people think that the rough shifting characteristics of the honda automatics make the cars sportier. I don't dislike automatics. It's just that, in my opinion, a car with an automatic transmission should be smoooootth.
Remember, The Mob rules
Jul 31, 2000 (10:04 pm)
24 new posts?!!!! What the?! Where did all you people find this free time? I don't even have time to read them all. It's weekdays guys, time to earn a living.
#24 of 2813 Wenyue
Jul 31, 2000 (10:13 pm)
I spend most of my lunch surfing and now, after work with a guinnes, I'm so wrapped up in this conversation, i'm checking it often.
#25 of 2813 the missing 5-spd manual
Jul 31, 2000 (11:00 pm)
I think the lack of 5-spd manual for Accord V6 is simply a marketing decision. The number of buyers for 5-spd manual is small, automatic transmission is all but a requirement for most people now (car lovers on in these forums excluded).
Honda doesn't have resource to spare like Toyota does, being much smaller and less wealthy. What Toyota can afford to support and spend, Honda might not be able to.
I think the Honda's decision not to make the V6 manual combo is a understandable, and probably a correct one. After all, look at how many people buy 5-spd V6 camrys are out there? Not many. The low production number means it doesn't enjoy the economy of scale, and you don't make as much money selling them. I'm sure Honda studied the cost-benefit relationshipe before deciding not to make 5-spd V6s.
Toyota is a different story, its cars may not look aggressive, but the company's capability is vast. Toyota, has about $16 billion in highly liquid short term marketable securities. That's more asset than the largest automaker GM can make in 4 years. That's enough money to buy more than 25% of Ford or Dailmer Chrylser, or buy a controling share (>33%) of GM or Honda. Wish I had some of that.
#26 of 2813 re:wenyue
Jul 31, 2000 (11:07 pm)
Then, how you explain Nissan decision to create the manual tranny for the Maxima SE? As I stated before, I think its one of the major selling point for that specific trim line. And coupled with Honda ability to create good manual transmission, I think its not going to cost them significantly to create a manual tranmission for the V6.
I'm sure Honda did some cost analyzing like you said, I'm just wondering if they're missing out on that market niche or there are other reasoning behind it.
#27 of 2813 liufei
Aug 01, 2000 (1:14 am)
I think Nissan has always been a good niche product company. It's niche was sporty cars. Like my old man's 89 Sentra 200SX, still sporty by today's standards (he keeps it around because that thing is reliable too).
In my opinion, the problem Nissan had/has started when they try leave their sports niche to go mainstream. Their Maxima got bland in the mid 90's in an attempt to take on the more established Toyota/Honda. Of course, they were bloodied, and lost marketshare/profit big time.
Current Nissan strategy is calling for going back to the sports niche. They heavily emphasize Maxima's sporty nature (note the comercials), the new Sentra is almost a minturized Maxima, again long on the sportiness.
For those who emphasize on sportiness, 5-spd manual is all but a must for a car. And Nissan is definitly trying to be heavy on the sportiness. Camry and Accord are the two mainstream products, sportiness isn't the biggest selling point, therefore no 5-spd isn't going to hurt the popularity very much.
Just my 2 cents worth.
#28 of 2813 Wenyue
Aug 01, 2000 (3:20 am)
I agree that a not having a 5sp take away a lot of thing from a sporty car, guess there has to be compromise for all the ppl that want a sport car but cant have a 5sp.
Regarding Nissan, my family never own one so I dont have 1st hand experience with it (other than the occasional borrowing of friend/relatives car). In general I think their car provides the basic transportation with good reliability, and price to reflect that (early sentra and altima price much cheaper than competition). I dont know if Nissan really wants to go back to sportiness and abandon the family car niche concept, since that's where the money is (heck, a family must own a family car/suv).
I also think the Maxima will be a strong competitor against the Camry/Accord if Nissan can adjust it pricewise, to make it goes head to head with the other 2.
BTW, have chance to tried out that Taurus yet?
#29 of 2813 Sporty
Aug 01, 2000 (4:40 am)
Well guys, you all can stop argueing over which car is sporty, cause in all honesty, neither of them are. I just sold my 2000 EX V6 Accord Coupe (what a piece of junk) and purchased a 2000 VW GTI GLX VR6. Of course that is a manual, and that is a sporty car. I guess that some car companies think that if they take a 4 door sedan and slap only two doors on it, they have a "sporty car." These cars are both wanna-be cars. The Accord needs a manual, and the solara is a boat. If you ask me, Honda and Toyota need to work together and create the ulitmate wanna-be sporty car.
One more thing, in defense of the Max. It is NOT in the same class as the Accord or Camry, that's what the Altima is there for. Wait until 2002 for a new bigger Altima with a V6 to compete head to head with the Camry and Accord.
Aug 01, 2000 (7:49 am)
Thought you were going to get a Maxima after Honda bought back your Accord? You bought a VW?! You're complaining about your Accord's quality control, and you bought a VW? Hope you have good luck with it, I sure didn't with the last (and only) VW I bought!