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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16251 messages,  Last post on Jun 18, 2013 at 7:02 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1561 of 1626

#15599 of 16251 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [plekto] by billyperksii

Feb 05, 2013 (7:30 am)

Replying to: plekto (Feb 05, 2013 12:52 am)
Yeah- try finding a base car on any dealer lot.
Me personally, I love the added creature comforts.

#15600 of 16251 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [michaell] by sweendogy

Feb 05, 2013 (8:51 am)

Replying to: michaell (Feb 05, 2013 7:26 am)
Voice of reason- nice - ellps should have some lux features built into the standard price- Acura does a nice job with standard features - the Germans not so much-
 
Price matters in the segment - lets not be blind here people- a 4cly 3 series is close to 40k and it comes with pleather seats. The junk someone mentioned should be standard- otherwise you are just paying for a badge.

#15601 of 16251 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [sweendogy] by michaell

Feb 05, 2013 (9:48 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Feb 05, 2013 8:51 am)
ellps should have some lux features built into the standard price- Acura does a nice job with standard features - the Germans not so much-
 
Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans - yep, I should think that some luxury features be available.
 
I think the big difference between Acura, Lexus, Infiniti and MB, Audi and BMW is that the Germans offer 'unbundled' options (Xenons only? Ja Wohl) whereas the Japanese only offer 'bundled' options (Tech Package, etc.).

#15602 of 16251 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [michaell] by sweendogy

Feb 05, 2013 (10:16 am)

Replying to: michaell (Feb 05, 2013 9:48 am)
Totally agree- the basic options (leather, Lights, heated seats) are standard on the Japanese brands.

#15603 of 16251 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [plekto] by nyccarguy

Feb 05, 2013 (12:37 pm)

Replying to: plekto (Feb 05, 2013 12:52 am)
I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with "normal" cruise control. I just stated that because MB touted Distronic in their ad.
 
I also agree with you about a good windshield mounted GPS. My BMW's fully integrated navigation is nice to have, but if I were to look for another E90 328xi, I could live without it.
 
Where I live in CT, the back roads and even the Merritt Parkwayare not well lit. I love my car's Bi-Xenon Adaptive headlights.
 
AWD isn't a requirement (especially since the CLA is a FWD car). I like having it, even if it gives me a "false" sense of security. If I were to buy a FWD or RWD car, I'd have to buy snow tires for it. If I were to buy a dedicated set of snow tires and winter wheels, that'd be basically not too muich less than the cost of what the manufacturer charges for an AWD system.
 
As far as looks go, to me there is no single determining factor that impact whether I like the way a car looks other than the wheels (rear end is second). I really like the way my 17" split 5 spoke (value package) wheels look on my car. The Sport Pkg Wheels & the ///M SPort Pkg Wheels look fantastic on the E90s as well. Some of the "base" 16" wheels on the lower optioned 328i E90s make the car look down right cheap. I would never buy a car with wheels I don't like and say to myself: "I'll get a set of sport package or ///M Sport package wheels in the spring."
 
I'm sure the car (as most are) is "best in it's base configuration." Like others have said, how many of these base or low optioned cars are going to be at the auto shows, in press fleets, on dealer showrooms?
 
Look at something like a Wrangler Unlimited. In it's base form (Sport), it is perfectly capable and will handle a lot of snow and even some light to medium duty off roading. How many Wrangler Sports do you see driving around? Where I live, I see a lot more Saharas (High $30K Sticker) and Rubicons (Low $40K Sticker).

#15604 of 16251 My pet peeve ... by dino001

Feb 05, 2013 (12:50 pm)

... is fold-down rear seat. I think for BMW or Benz to demand $500 for it on sedans is a true scandal and I'm shocked they are getting away with it. What's worse, many dealers actually do not order this option, so I can bet there are many trully surprised owners of 3-series, who discover their seats don't fold down first time they try to put something bigger into their trunk.
 
Xenons? Yeah, I think this is a disapointment that Germans charge extra for those. It should be standard today on ELLPS.
Leather seats? I'd agree that in US-market it is also a big disapointment that BMW or Benz demand almost two grand for that, but knowing a bit about Euro market, I can certify that Europeans at large do not revere leather uphostery nearly as much as Americans. Many straight out prefer high quality cloth over leather on both their home couch and their car. One could call it charitably a "cultural difference". MB Tex is reporteadly a very high quality material, both in terms of appearance and durability, so it is even preferred by many. Quick inventory browse shows it is a majority on C250 models, which seems to confirm that assertion. If they sell, they can't be so bad. I bet many people actually think it is leather (as it is faking it really well).
 
I don't know about BMW, their leatherette has much less footprint. It may mean the quality differential is greater. However, BMW also bundles leather with its premium package (MB does not), which is considered a must, even by selling dealers (BMW dealers actually order the cars they want within model allotments), plus it was even a free upgrade when E9x was being phased out (I know it was $0 option on my 2012 wagon).
 
Anyway, I remember, when I added sunroof and those fold-down seats to sedan, suddenly the wagon (where it was standard) was not more expensive, at all. Tells me a lot about the mindset and market. I guess it is their effort to expand the buyer's base to those "aspirational" purchasers (not just by leases, but also by playing with content level), whereas wagons, coupes and convertibles do not have to carry that burden.

#15605 of 16251 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [billyperksii] by flightnurse

Feb 05, 2013 (2:29 pm)

Replying to: billyperksii (Feb 05, 2013 7:30 am)
Yeah- try finding a base car on any dealer lot.
 
Phoenix Motor has 25 C250's that are under 39K... Half are 37.9K and under. I'm sure most have leather and 7 spd auto.
 
http://mercedesofphoenix.com/new-inventory?Make=Mercedes-Benz&Model=C-Class&sort- =Price%20asc
 
Granted they also have 56K C350 sport too... OUCH...

#15606 of 16251 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [flightnurse] by billyperksii

Feb 05, 2013 (3:09 pm)

Replying to: flightnurse (Feb 05, 2013 2:29 pm)
Good Luck to those purchasers of 37k C250- as another poster would say Happy Motoring.

#15607 of 16251 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [flightnurse] by dino001

Feb 05, 2013 (3:19 pm)

Replying to: flightnurse (Feb 05, 2013 2:29 pm)
It is impossible that those 37K-39K Benzes have leather. According to MBUSA.com, to add leather seats ($1750), you have add premium package ($2500), which means even without metallic color ($720), you have to add $4250 to sticker, i.e. price HAS TO cross 40 grand to get leather. The MBTex looks like leather, but it is not. Many dealers are just terrible in car descriptions on their websites. All they give you is price, colors and list of standard equipment, which they call "options", probably to confuse you. Or perhaps they don't undertand meaning of word "option". Assuming some low level secretary inputs the data, it is possible, I suppose. BMW, MB and Volvo dealers are worst when it comes to description of their stock. At least those from my neck of the woods. Surprisingly, Cadillac dealers show exact descriptions of their stock, including package/option codes and everything. The lower you go in brand, the better it gets. All Ford, Toyota, GM, websites are great when it comes to accurate stock description. Go figure.

#15608 of 16251 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [dino001] by sweendogy

Feb 05, 2013 (4:33 pm)

Replying to: dino001 (Feb 05, 2013 3:19 pm)
So msrps on Germans are misleading because you dk what exactly is in the said car. Interesting. I just went to the acura website- and they have 5 different ilx models - they come as they come no real options to speak just dealer accessories - same with the TL (6) and Tsx(5). Btw if the new mb 1 series is Ellps then so is the ilx.
Now I'm not an acura fan in its current state of bland but will say if they are Ellps ( and to me that's debatable) they have pricing and packaging down.

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