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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16252 messages,  Last post on Jun 19, 2013 at 4:39 PM

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Messages Page 1626 of 1626

#16243 of 16252 Re: More maintenance on diesel [fedlawman] by m6user

Jun 16, 2013 (11:14 am)

Replying to: fedlawman (Jun 16, 2013 11:08 am)
No, i think we agree in general and that's pretty much what I'm talking about.....in general and we are talking somewhat historically here. The scenario regarding gas prices in this country has changed greatly during the past 5 years so going forward a lot of smaller choices are going to made. There are always exceptions to any rule and different degrees of difference. But, again and in general, I think Americas love affair with big HP and big cars stemmed from the vast size and open spaces that were available when the auto came into being in this country. The scenario you describe(narrow roads, congestion, short travel distances and eventually high fuel prices) for Europe was like that for years and years before the auto made it debut.
 
I think I've only owned one car with over 300 hp but I have owned several V8s and still have a V8 pickup that gets used sparingly while my I4 gets the bulk of the miles. I think my 68 Mustang V8 was rated at less than 200hp.

#16244 of 16252 Re: More maintenance on diesel [m6user] by fedlawman

Jun 16, 2013 (2:30 pm)

Replying to: m6user (Jun 16, 2013 11:14 am)
So this begs the question, before the automobile did Europeans ride smaller horses?
 
Out of all my cars, only 2 had over 200 hp. None reached 300 hp.

#16245 of 16252 Re: More maintenance on diesel [m6user] by dino001

Jun 16, 2013 (5:06 pm)

Replying to: m6user (Jun 16, 2013 11:14 am)
I agree with your previous statement. Many people often insinuate the Europeans drive those small cars with small engines because they are such caring creatures and Americans love their obscenely huge cars with insanely large engines because they are such fill the blank. I do believe there is large amount of excess and waste in so-called American way of life. However, I also believe everybody else in the world would have done the same if given a chance.
 
On fuel price subject, I think it is fair to expect significant changes in domestic market. While crude price went up the same for everybody, gas prices went up more here than anywhere else, in relative terms. This is because in other countries taxes are much higher percentage of the price (up to 80%) and most of which is flat portion. In other words, insane taxation of fuel in Europe causing high prices at the first place, cushioned the gas price runup when crude over quadrupled from in 2000s. American consumer on the other hand saw every move in crude translated to almost equally proportional move in gas price. Suddenly, those who owned Explorers and Blazers, as their family and commuting cars could not bear the increased cost. So I think we will see significant convergence of the markets. Europeans are liking those taller crossovers almost as much as Americans (many just can't afford them) and Americans will have to learn to like fewer cubic inches, cylinders and even less space in certain conditions.

#16246 of 16252 Re: More maintenance on diesel [dino001] by graphicguy

Jun 17, 2013 (8:10 am)

Replying to: dino001 (Jun 16, 2013 5:06 pm)
I know quite a few Europeans who either own American muscle cars (at no small expense to buy, import and operate in Europe), or prefer larger Jags and BMWs as their preferred daily drivers.
 
Not so certain they like the fact that they have to drive diesels or (relatively) underpowered cars. But, their gov'ts dictate that they do so, either with taxes and tarrifs or by supporting much higher fuel prices.
 
That said, the U.K. is looking at price fixing by at least Shell and B.P....
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bp-and-shell-pricefixing-investiga- tion-oil-executives-may-face-jail-warns-david-cameron-8617892.html
 
U.S. DOJ is doing the same....
 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/05/17/oil-price-probe/2215241/-

#16247 of 16252 Re: More maintenance on diesel [graphicguy] by Kirstie@Edmunds HOST

Jun 17, 2013 (8:36 am)

Replying to: graphicguy (Jun 17, 2013 8:10 am)
There's not just a financial incentive for owning a small car in Europe. If you've ever driven in a fairly large European city, you know that parking can be an absolute nightmare. Finding a parking place for even a midsize sedan can be a challenge, but you can often find on-street parallel parking that you can squeeze a tiny car into. I had a Nissan Micra when I was in the London area a few years ago, which was awful on motorways (drive to Newcastle = not fun), not great on "a"' roads, but great for tight parking spots and tiny "b" roads.
 
Same sometimes when living out in the sticks. My ex in-laws lived way out, and it was a 10-mile jaunt on a mostly dirt road with giant hedgerows on either side, and the road itself was wide enough for about 1.5 vehicles. If you met an oncoming vehicle, you had to pull off til the passenger side of the vehicle was pretty firmly against the hedgerow. So, my ex in-laws, flush with money, owned a tiny vehicle for those purposes.

#16248 of 16252 Re: More maintenance on diesel [ivan_99] by xrunner2

Jun 17, 2013 (8:45 am)

Replying to: ivan_99 (Jun 12, 2013 8:17 am)
I'm not certain how well diesels will play in the ELLPS category, specifically the "Performance" portion, but the lowly VW definitely had the NVH within range of near-luxury specs.
 
Can understand their use in Europe, but wonder why some might want a diesel in an ELLPS in the U.S. Unless travel and commutes pass truck stops, then not easy to find diesel.
 
 I have a JD tractor with a diesel engine and there are only 2 gas stations in an 8 mile radius that sell diesel. Of course, I pick up the fuel in 5 gallon containers. One thing that future diesel car owners should know is that the area around the pumps, concrete pavement, pump handle, everything is oily, messy and dirty. Make sure you have extra paper towels to clean your hands, and maybe shoe bottoms, in case the gas station does not have same in nearby dispenser.

#16249 of 16252 Re: More maintenance on diesel [kirstie_h] by dino001

Jun 17, 2013 (9:27 am)

Replying to: Kirstie@Edmunds (Jun 17, 2013 8:36 am)
True, parking spaces are smaller. Even turn radii in places like parking garages can be just insane. I remember one in Cologne - there was a post in the middle of exit curve with a rainbow of colors from paint transfers.

#16250 of 16252 Re: More maintenance on diesel [kirstie_h] by graphicguy

Jun 18, 2013 (6:57 am)

Replying to: Kirstie@Edmunds (Jun 17, 2013 8:36 am)
I used to drive in Manchester quite a bit. Not only is parking crazy, they park any way they want, wrong side, pointed the wrong direction. Of course, I saw quite a few fender benders as a result.
 
I concur with Dino....Euro drivers don't drive small cars because they want to, or out of some misguided sense of environmentalism. They drive them because there's either no room for a more comfortable car, or they can't park them.

#16251 of 16252 Re: More maintenance on diesel [xrunner2] by graphicguy

Jun 18, 2013 (7:02 am)

Replying to: xrunner2 (Jun 17, 2013 8:45 am)
Those of us in the U.S. can't find the financial value equation to support diesels. Plus, we like high revving motors. Diesels do have good low end torque, but run out of steam quickly. They'll never be more than a small niche here. Hybrids, plug-in hybrids, clean gas engines do as well, mostly better than diesels.
 
I saw a study recently stating that 50% of U.S. cars will be some form of hybrid or an electric car by 2025. That's only 12 years from now. Diesels won't have a place at that table.

#16252 of 16252 Re: More maintenance on diesel [graphicguy] by andres3

Jun 19, 2013 (4:39 pm)

Replying to: graphicguy (Jun 18, 2013 7:02 am)
I forget who, but someone wrote an article recently saying that the Electric car was just about dead, and for certain a dead-end technology we've sunk billions into and made little progress in the last couple of decades.
 
Guess it depends which studies you read.

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