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Smart Shopper Stories from the Sales Frontlines
48090 messages, Last post on Dec 05, 2009 at 5:45 PM
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Jul 02, 2009 4:06 am) $10-15 tops. Way off base here. Most stores have a full time title clerk who's duties include title preparation, DMV forms, payoffs, program filing from Mfg's, etc. Kind of hard to support that person's salary/benefits on $10-15 per car delivered, not to mention the driver or runner who does the legwork. But its irrelevant anyway. Doc fees are whatever the dealer wants to charge and usually in line with competition within their market. Has no direct correlation to the actual expense involved. It allows the dealer to advertise a more competitive price, and be assured of covering some expense and overhead. As someone said earlier, if doc fees went away, dealers would simply raise their selling prices. They do afterall need a certain gross to pay the overhead.
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Replying to: lrguy44 (Jul 02, 2009 4:41 am) Thank you for a straight forward answer to my questions. It would seem that at an hourly rate of even $20 an hour, $300 would be sufficient time to find and fix a few typos. I also assume, the person doing this work has other work to do when when their isn't this work to prepare. So, it isn't like the fee justify's having this person employed just for writing up doc fees. I understand that it is gross profit. There will be some real expenses in performing this work, so the "net profit" is probably in the range of $250 on a $300 fee. The fact some states put caps on the fees tells me it is being abused. The practice should be outlawed, and the cost of doing paperwork should be built into the price of the car. |
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Replying to: driver100 (Jul 02, 2009 5:30 am) |
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Replying to: richard64 (Jul 01, 2009 1:19 pm) Regarding doc fees, the way I see it, if it's related to the bottom line cost of the vehicle, and is indeed part of the sale of any vehicle, then it's fodder for SFTSFL. After a few times of getting "where did you come up with those numbers?" from sales people, and sales managers, I have a little "deal" spread sheet. It includes the MSRP, number I'm offering, taxes, title and license fees (directly from my state's BMV). I usually print this out before I go to a dealer so they can present it to whomever needs to sign off on it (and I do include a signature space). Of course, it means nothing as it's not legally binding. It's my own version of a dealer's offer sheet. When I've presented it in the past, by the time I got to F&I, they always add the $250 doc fee. So, I had to revise it. I include a notation that the offer is all inclusive, including doc fees. How they divide my offer up, into whichever pile of money they have to, in order to make numbers match with mine is totally up to them. I add $50 into my offer to cover doc fees. If they want to reduce the cost of the vehicle by the $200 delta, that's their prerogative. LR, you're right. They usually reduce the price of the vehicle by that $200 delta, but still show the $250 doc fee. Fine with me. The numbers are the same. When I first started doing that, the dealers would balk at it. It helps me cut through the myriad of numbers that make up a total deal. Sometimes my figures are incorrect, and the dealer shows me why. Sometimes their numbers are incorrect, and I show the dealer why. Mostly, they're dead on, though. Some dealers are appreciative that I understand all the numbers involved and I make for a quick and easy deal. Those dealerships who prefer to go the "grind" method aren't so welcoming of my little sheet. Those that recognize that it really cuts time out of the whole process, seem to be appreciative.
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Replying to: kyfdx (Jul 01, 2009 7:34 pm) This just continues to highlight the fact that negotiating on the out the door price is the thing to do. Who cares where they allocate what fees. What you pay to drive off the lot is what matters. |
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Replying to: richard64 (Jul 01, 2009 1:19 pm) The first thing I do when I see a questionable post is to check out how long the poster has been a member of these forums and see which forums they are posting in. This particular poster just joined and has only posted in this one forum. I realize that everyone is new at some point, but how many of you joined edmunds and immediately knew your way around here well enough to actually find the right forum to post in, etc. and then start posting about a particular problem you have? This, combined with all the other reasons mentioned leads me to believe that this is someone just pulling our chain. It has furnished us some entertainment and I appreciate that. Also I realize that I could be all wrong about this and if I am I apologize to the poster.
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Replying to: lrguy44 (Jul 01, 2009 8:20 pm) Of course I fully realize that if there is no trade-in, than you can still walk out!!! I have bought several vehicles in Florida over the past 16 years and it worked every time for me. Let's face it, the dealer probably still screwed me on the trade-in price and still had plenty of wiggle room to do that!!! (or they wouldn't have done it in the first place....and they still make a decent profit on the TRADE-IN.
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Replying to: houdini1 (Jul 02, 2009 6:34 am) |
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Replying to: nortsr1 (Jul 02, 2009 6:36 am) |
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Replying to: jwilliams2 (Jul 02, 2009 5:15 am) I assumed that most of the paperwork these days is done electronically, which must cut down the cost. I know a lot was done via Fax on my recent purchase, Still sometimes it must be necessary to send someone to the DMV to pick up plates and such. I've been behind a dealer's runner a few times and it seems they wait until they have all the deals finished for the day and then go register them all at once. There is a sign in my local office that they will not handle any dealer work after 4:00 PM. The civil servants don't want to work past their 4:30 quitting time.
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