Last post on Feb 25, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Honda CR-V
What is this discussion about?
Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4, Subaru Forester, SUV
#98 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [rsholland]
Sep 23, 2006 (12:02 pm)
What you call DNA is nothing more than a choice. Subaru choses not to participate in a very lucrative market because they value the benefits of AWD more than the benefits of going with 2WD.
Well, Honda values the benefits of their single engine strategy for the CR-V more than the benefits a V6 might provide.
Will we see a V6 CR-V? Maybe. But it probably won't happen until they have a V6 which provides the same positive qualities they achieve with an I4. Or might not. Perhaps we'll see a hybrid, or an HCCI engine, or even a fuel cell.
Unlike Subaru, Honda doesn't peg their designs on a single technology or design. They engineer around ideals and pick the technology or design which best meets those ideals - best tool for the job.
At this point in time, Honda doesn't see the need for more power to get the job done. Enthusiasts have been clamoring for a V6 since 1997, yet CR-V sales have been climbing up and up. Seems to me Honda is better at understanding the job than enthusiasts.
#99 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [varmint]
Sep 23, 2006 (12:24 pm)
What you call DNA is nothing more than a choice. Subaru choses not to participate in a very lucrative market because they value the benefits of AWD more than the benefits of going with 2WD
Well, yeah... of course it is a choice...
They tried FWD before, and they almost went out of business. Being 100% AWD was their savior, is their savior, and will continue to be their savior. That's what Subaru is known for. That's their identity—and hence their "DNA." There's too many 2WD brands out there to compete against, and Subaru is only 100% AWD car brand out there. That makes them pretty special, and keeps them unique in the marketplace. There are plenty of sodas out there but there's only one Coca-Cola. There are plenty of jeans out there but there is only one Levi's. There are plenty of AWD car wannabes out there, but there is only one Subaru.
Seems to me Honda is better at understanding the job than enthusiasts.
You seem to be implying that if they had a V6, their sales might be less then what they are. I'm saying—as good as their sales are—they'd even be better if they had a V6 for customers to choose from.
#100 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [steve_]
Sep 26, 2006 (9:11 am)
Honda knows that just about every CR-V competitor -- from Tucson to Santa Fe, from Saturn to Suzuki -- can be had with a six-cylinder engine as standard or optional equipment.
Huh? What about the Forester? Small SUV - check; four-cylinder engine - check; two rows of seats - check. I guess the Forester is the Rodney Dangerfield of its class... it's named Best SUV three years running by Car & Driver and still gets no respect/recognition
#101 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [rsholland]
Sep 26, 2006 (9:20 am)
Well, that's not what I mean to imply. Sales would probably remain the same. Which means extra effort for no gain.
Even if they gain 10-20K units per year (which would actually surpass sales of the RAV4), that would result in a slim profit increase to cover an expensive upgrade.
#102 of 782 Subaru AWD Video
Sep 26, 2006 (10:34 am)
This is being used to train Subaru salesmen but it leaked out and has been getting tons of hits. It's 11 minutes long so make sure you have broadband and time to watch the whole thing (CR-V appears in the first minute, and then again at 7 minutes):
The '06 CR-V EX AWD is compared to a base Forester X and gets whipped, and the Forester X doesn't even have the rear LSD that the X Limited, LL Bean, and XT models get.
The Highlander is compared to the Tribeca, as is the Murano and XC90. Subaru seemed to hand-pick part-time AWD systems (low hanging fruit? LOL) to demonstrate the advantages of their full-time systems.
I like those ramp tests, you just can't cheat. BMW used those to compare their AWD 330xi to Audi's A4 Quattro a couple of years ago, and the X5 to the Lexus RX330.
The video confirms something I already suspected - Tribeca is one of the few vehicles that can supply enough power to a single wheel to climb that ramp.
Another issue - the systems that are engineered primarily as FWD often have serious difficulties sending enough power to the rear axle to be of significant benefit.
Finally, not all stability control systems are created equal. The video does a good job of showing that some are pretty much useless.
#104 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [varmint]
Sep 26, 2006 (5:44 pm)
Sales would probably remain the same. Which means extra effort for no gain
So your saying whatever CRV V6 sales there are would come at the expense of CRV 4-cylinder sales?
I highly doubt that. If anything it will bring "new" customers into the Honda showrooms—customers who would have never before considered a CRV.
#105 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [p0926]
Sep 26, 2006 (6:24 pm)
The CRV and RAV4 both have standard stability and traction control which the Forester does not.
For me and my family's safety, this would definitely be a BIG negative and deal breaker for choosing the Forester over them.
#106 of 782 Re: Subaru AWD Video [ateixeira]
Sep 26, 2006 (6:54 pm)
Juice - I think the 4wd lock on the RAV would have made the dirt hill a piece of cake. I'm not so sure about the roller ramp. I remember watching the Beemer demo with you and was quite impressed.
#107 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [richk6]
Sep 26, 2006 (7:08 pm)
I believe that Subaru has a built-in stability and traction control system with their world class all-wheel drive system.