Ask the Car People.SM


Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4 or Subaru Forester?

782 messages,  Last post on Feb 25, 2009 at 1:24 PM

You are in the Honda CR-V Forum.

What is this discussion about? Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4, Subaru Forester, SUV

Messages Page 13 of 79

#120 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [rsholland] by varmint

Sep 28, 2006 (10:19 am)

Replying to: rsholland (Sep 27, 2006 2:57 pm)
Nice. Very dismissive.
 
Have you conveniently forgotten that RAV4 sales were up approx 50% back when the 2001 redesign was released?
 
When Toyota launched the 2001 RAV4, sales of that model matched sales of the CR-V - for a short time. The prior model had always sold well below the same level as the CR-V. At times, the CR-V outsold the RAV4 2 to 1.
 
This new RAV4 is more than just a V6. It's a larger vehicle. Ever since the CR-V was launched, only those small CUVs with a decent back seat and good cargo space have made a splash in the market. The ones that have remained small have all posted meager results. That list includes vehicles like the Forester, old RAV4s, Vitaras, the Outlander, etc. And, yes, that list includes models with V6s and turbo fours.
 
And while sales of the RAV4 have jumped 87%, only 30% of those are being sold with the V6. Obviously, there is plenty of growth coming from the I4 models.
 
So, we've got 3 factors which contribute to the RAV4's current success... it's new, larger, and got the V6.
 
Now ask yourself. How many of those RAV4 customers would have bought the I4 if the V6 were not available? Let's be conservative and say 10%? Which would mean the V6 is only contributing 20% to the total number of vehicles sold.
 
With that in mind, go back and look at my projection for how many sales Honda would gain by adding a V6. You might find the number 20% mentioned.
 
"Do you think the also all-new CRV will have such a sales increase?"
 
Heck no. I think Honda will miss their 160K sales target. The new CR-V is way too ugly. It is controversial at best. Being new will probably save it in the first year. It does appear to have some nice upgrades, too. But, in the long run, I expect them to lose sales. Adding a V6 would only make the mistake more expensive!

#121 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [varmint] by rsholland

Sep 28, 2006 (10:27 am)

Replying to: varmint (Sep 28, 2006 10:19 am)
And while sales of the RAV4 have jumped 87%, only 30% of those are being sold with the V6. Obviously, there is plenty of growth coming from the I4 models.
 
Not sure where you got the 30% from, but assuming that's correct, that's 30% more sales than without having the V6 available to customers. And assuming that's correct, Honda could also expect a 30% increase in sales over and above the 4-cylinder-only CRV, if they offered a V6 as an option.
 
Bob

#122 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [rsholland] by p0926

Sep 28, 2006 (12:27 pm)

Replying to: rsholland (Sep 28, 2006 10:27 am)
Hey pretty soon you two are going to start quibbling over fractions of a percent I think it's safe to say that Honda could sell more CRVs if they offered a V-6 option but Honda obviously weighed the numbers and didn't believe that the increase would be enough to offset the development costs.
 
I also agree that Subaru could sell more Foresters if they were bigger. Unfortunately I'm in the minority who prefer it retain its current size. However, there is certainly still a market for smaller vehicles. Look at Honda and Toyota, the Civic and Corolla have both grown from sub-compacts to large compacts so now they're having to come out with the Fit and Yaris respectively to satisfy the demand for smaller, cheaper and more fuel efficient models.
 
-Frank

#123 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [p0926] by rsholland

Sep 28, 2006 (12:43 pm)

Replying to: p0926 (Sep 28, 2006 12:27 pm)
I think it's more a fact that Honda has stated they are really targeting the female customer, who are usually more interested in economy than power, with the new CRV. This is based on past sales, I'm sure.
 
I've also read somewhere that Honda may (?) offer another SUV that falls in between the CRV and Pilot. If that's true, it likely will get a V6.
 
Bob

#124 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [rsholland] by varmint

Sep 29, 2006 (10:21 am)

Replying to: rsholland (Sep 28, 2006 10:27 am)
"Not sure where you got the 30% from..."
 
Toyota. It's been cited in the auto rags and quoted from Toyota PR staff.
 
"but assuming that's correct, that's 30% more sales than without having the V6 available to customers."
 
Now ask yourself. How many of those RAV4 customers would have bought the I4 if the V6 were not available? Let's be conservative and say 10%? Which would mean the V6 is only contributing 20% to the total number of vehicles sold.
  
With that in mind, go back and look at my projection for how many sales Honda would gain by adding a V6. You might find the number 20% mentioned.

#125 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [p0926] by varmint

Sep 29, 2006 (10:29 am)

Replying to: p0926 (Sep 28, 2006 12:27 pm)
"I think it's safe to say that Honda could sell more CRVs if they offered a V-6 option but Honda obviously weighed the numbers and didn't believe that the increase would be enough to offset the development costs."
 
So, I'm not writing in a foreign tongue, after all?
 
I hear you on the Forester. They could gain sales by making it larger. But as more and more manufacturers move upward in size (like the RAV4), that leaves more buyers for Subaru to woo with compact dimensions.
 
A larger Forester would also intrude a bit on Outback sales.

#126 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [varmint] by rsholland

Sep 29, 2006 (12:12 pm)

Replying to: varmint (Sep 29, 2006 10:21 am)
You might find the number 20% mentioned.
 
20% is nothing to sneeze at. So Honda has elected to give up a another 20% of sales because they don't offer a V6 CRV.
 
BTW, what's the percentage of V6 Accords sold? Whatever that number is, I think you could expect the same number of V6 CRVs sold.
 
Actually, I would expect more V6 CRVs to be sold than Accord V6s, simply because the CRV is more likely to be used for towing and other "utility-oriented" chores than the Accord, where the V6 power would truly be appreciated.
 
Bob

#127 of 782 Re: Honda remains confident [rsholland] by varmint

Sep 29, 2006 (3:46 pm)

Replying to: rsholland (Sep 29, 2006 12:12 pm)
"BTW, what's the percentage of V6 Accords sold?"
 
40%
 
The Accord has averaged 387,500 sales each year for the past four years. That means approximately 155,000 units per year for the V6 Accord (more than the total sales of the CR-V).
 
The CR-V has averaged 147,000 units over the same period. Which (at 30%) would give us a theoretical 44,100 units per year. They earn more customers simply bringing over the 5 year-old Fit.
 
"Whatever that number is, I think you could expect the same number of V6 CRVs sold."
 
The percentage of RAV4's sold with a V6 doesn't match the percentage for Camrys.

#128 of 782 RAV4 vs. CRV - HONEST ANSWERS PLEASE! by ktkat65

Oct 01, 2006 (6:04 am)

Replying to: varmint (Sep 29, 2006 3:46 pm)
I know it's difficult to compare cars, but a lot of what I'm hearing here makes me feel the RAV4 is not really a good buy. We are considering a new car (well, SUV-ish auto) and the one I really loved (I have not driven yet) is the RAV4. Now I'm wondering about the CRV in comparison. A lot of people say the RAV has a lot of noise and a rough ride. But I have heard some negative things about the new CRV also. What do you guys think? I am wanting the car for a short commute, plus hauling a kid, and maybe some road trips (so we need some room, but not a lot). We'd like comfort, good ride, good price and good gas mileage.

#129 of 782 Re: RAV4 vs. CRV - HONEST ANSWERS PLEASE! [ktkat65] by varmint

Oct 02, 2006 (10:26 am)

Replying to: ktkat65 (Oct 01, 2006 6:04 am)
Okay lemme see here...
 
Short trips... any of these will do.
 
One critter... any of these will do.
 
Road trips... any, though I'm hesitant about the Forester. It's the smallest of the lot.
 
Good ride... that's a tough one. Haven't driven the new CR-V yet. I don't expect it will be a problem based on the reviews I'm reading. I think the only reason why the RAV4 takes a hit for a firm ride is because some are buying the sport package (tighter suspension tuning). Forester is proven to be pretty good in this category.
 
Good price... CR-V's are too new. Pricing is still at MSRP. The Forester (because it's the oldest design) probably represents the best overall value.
 
Gas mileage... any will do. Just stay away from the RAV4 with the V6 or the Forester with the turbo.
 
If the RAV4 makes you all weak in the knees, I say buy it. Were I shopping today, I'd probably work a deal on a 4 cyl RAV4 myself.

Messages Page 13 of 79

To POST a message, please Sign In.

Advertisement

Browse by Category

Browse by Vehicle
   View All Vehicles

Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
View All Topics

Edmunds Community

Advertisement