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Toyota FJ Cruiser vs Jeep Wrangler

541 messages,  Last post on Apr 04, 2013 at 2:31 PM

You are in the Toyota FJ Cruiser Forum.

What is this discussion about? Toyota FJ Cruiser, Jeep Wrangler

Messages Page 39 of 54

#381 of 541 Not 'right', just listing one more opinion on the matter by fourx4ever

Dec 20, 2006 (9:16 am)

Replying to: murphydog (Dec 19, 2006 11:53 pm)
‘BTW if a solid front axle is the "bomb" why do the Ironman trucks they race in the desert have IFS? Surely there is more to going off road than rock crawling?’
 
There is one place IFS works better than a solid: In washboard – it gives the driver more control at high speeds… This is why all teams use IFS in BAJA trucks. Pretty much everywhere else it’s a off-road detriment. IFS is inherently weaker and more prone to rock damage. It makes the vehicle much more expensive to lift and it really really kills articulation: The FJC’s Ramp Travel Index (RTI) is 491, while the new Wrangler is 835! That’s something you tend to notice off road.
 
‘All that said with a jeep or an FJ I would be out in the woods maybe 20% of the time.’
 
This is probably about right. So in the test, why did the teams feature the Wrangler as best in Urban driving out off all the other contestants? My guess is because it is so easy to park because of the awesome visibility and the world class 34 foot turning circle. Moreover, the 4-door Wrangler has more room and much better access to the back seat than the FJC. This makes the Wrangler much more practical than the FJC for most people with a dog, wife and a 20 month old son – but perhaps this is just not you Murphy.
 
‘Vehicles are a matter of choice. Right for you ( or Peterson's) is not right for everbody else.’
 
Again you may be right. Perhaps Petersen’s didn’t know what the heck they were doing when they awarded the Tundra 4x4 of the year in 2000 or the Lexus GX 470 in 2003. Rather, I think we should just leave their judgement as being listed as ‘experienced’ and call this just one more valid opinion on the FJC matter.
 
‘ I have to agree with Steenh, my experience is the quality is not there yet’
 
Nobody knows yet what the quality will be like for the new Wrangler: its only been out for 3 months!!!! To say the quality is not there yet is nothing short of asinine. The history of the mechanical reliability for outgoing WRANGLER (not talking about other Jeeps here) has been impeccable over the last 10 years if you {bother} to look it up! The resale value has historically also been astounding; the industry’s best, tied with the Tundra.

#382 of 541 Re: Not 'right', just listing one more opinion on the matter [fourx4ever] by murphydog

Dec 20, 2006 (11:01 am)

Replying to: fourx4ever (Dec 20, 2006 9:16 am)
Tee hee...That is what I love about fourx4ever. Always right and always the last word. My experience with morpar products is that they break down. My friends experience with morpar products is they break down.
 
I don't know people who have 300k on jeeps and are "happy" with them, heck they get rid of them long before 300,000 miles, and they are sad to have to let it go.
 
Kind of cute how you manage to praise the 4.0 six (which is not in the new wrangler) then some how pan people who question the quality of the new wrangler. Either history is an indicator of future performance or it is not. Pick one argument and stick with it.
 
For me the 4 door wrangler is a no go. Too weird looking. The current 2 door version looks pretty darn good on the outside, but the inside let me down.
 
IFS vs solid axle - non issue. I have no intention of a lift kit, nor do I intend to go rock crawling. Wrangler may have a huge ramp travel index - however I do not intend to spend much if any time on the ramp.
 
I like the style, size and ability of the FJ. You like the style size and ability of the wrangler. 'nuff said.

#383 of 541 Re: Not 'right', just listing one more opinion on the matter [murphydog] by fourx4ever

Dec 20, 2006 (11:43 am)

Replying to: murphydog (Dec 20, 2006 11:01 am)
Murphy, the thing I like most about you is your ability to morph what other people say into suiting your argument. I didn’t make a statement about ‘mopars’ – I made a statement about wranglers and ONLY wranglers, and unlike you, I can back it up with published surveys.
 
But hey don't let me stop you - go buy an FJC! I don't really care how you waste your money, at least I won’t have to drive it. Why don't you buy a Honda Element – Honda says they are the 'Swiss army knife' of vehicles - probably much better than a Jeep or even an FJC.
 
The 4.0L was a damn good motor. I have seen it listed as ‘the best off-road’ motor ever made in more than one off-road publication and my experience backs that up. It’s a heck of a lot more bullet proof than ANY V-6 and it makes the torque where you need it off-road; at the bottom end not way up at 3700 RPM! Sad to see it not offered anymore.
 
And as far as panning people who comment on the reliability quality of the new wrangler - who wouldn't?? Where do you go for your information, the psychic hot line?

#384 of 541 Re: Not 'right', just listing one more opinion on the matter [fourx4ever] by murphydog

Dec 20, 2006 (1:43 pm)

Replying to: fourx4ever (Dec 20, 2006 11:43 am)
tee hee...again. Silly boy. you make me giggle reading your posts. I for one would wish you luck and many years of enjoyment with your new jeep should you choose to buy one. It sounds like your perfect car.
 
As far as wranglers and jeeps go, I have two friends who both dearly love their Wrangers - yet both of them lament the quality issues. I for one am not willing to endure what they endure to enjoy their 4x4's.
 
Why the obsession with the 4.0 motor anyway, as you stated it is no longer offered anymore.

#385 of 541 Hey Dog.... by fourx4ever

Dec 20, 2006 (3:19 pm)

Murph, what's up with the 'tee hee' stuff anyway? You sound like some kind of school girl bud.
 
Hey man I was just passing on some published stats on the Wrangler. Sorry I don't have any buddies with 'gut intuition' and 'scientific' opinions on the topic.
 
As for the 4.0L. It’s an inline 6; probably the best basic configuration for an engine around that displacement. It has a main bearing on each side of every con rod (7 in total) providing excellent crankshaft stability which in turn provides longevity and strength. It has natural harmonic balancing so it is smooth, once again helping to provide longevity. I6 engines also are capable of having a long stroke for much more bottom end torque. They generally also offer good space in the engine compartment for performance modifications or just general maintenance - oil changes etc.
 
I have owned several I6 motors. Most of them were original 20 years old and upwards of 200 – 300K with no major repairs. NONE of them burned oil or had any mechanical problems.
 
Also, when I test drove the FJC I did some light off-road with it – took it over some moguls, varied ground etc. It stalled repeatedly when I tried to idle it over this stuff. I later took a 2005 Rubicon (4.0L) over the same place and it idled through without the slightest hint of stalling.
 
The one short coming I see in the new Wrangler is that it does not have an I6 motor. Word is that will be rectified very soon with a common rail diesel.

#386 of 541 They Just confirmed what I have said since I drove it by fourx4ever

Dec 20, 2006 (3:24 pm)

Petersens just put on paper what I already found after I tested the FJC. Several concessions were made to production and corporate practicalities which have sacrificed the off-road ability of the FJC. Moreover, the styling department appears to have completely overridden any thought about trail visibility or that
 
I have heard the FJC being compared to a cocoon. One off-road publication compared off-roading in an FJC to "having sex with a snowsuit and mittens on’. Comments like this don’t come for no reason.
 
Based on Toyota press releases and their continued ‘brown paper’ magazine adds we are led to believe that this vehicle’s intended market is for the hard core off-road crowd, aka, the FJ-40 crowd. Now we see it is not so; the only thing that is remotely like a 40 is that piece of plastic between the front headlights they call a grill. So where does this vehicle belong? It seems to be an orphan! Its not a hard core off-roader, that’s the Jeep. And if you want a great vehicle to go to the lake and up rough logging roads then drive to work on Monday, take the family on vacation in comfort, then the 4-Runnin is a much better choice.
 
I challenge Toyota to give the people what they want: An open top FJC, with good visibility, solid axles, a 60:1.0 (or better) crawl ratio, lockers in the front AND back axles equipped with a diesel engine! Then we’ll talk.

#387 of 541 I6 motor by murphydog

Dec 20, 2006 (8:47 pm)

I understand about the motor, so why do you think it is no longer offered?

#388 of 541 Re: They Just confirmed what I have said since I drove it [fourx4ever] by steenh

Dec 21, 2006 (6:16 am)

Replying to: fourx4ever (Dec 20, 2006 3:24 pm)
Now, if we are going to start talking about stupid add campaigns, how about the jeep commander ads where they drive up to the beach... from the ocean? And, that's to advertise a true "Mall Rated" vehicle.
 
Or, let's cover a jeep in tons of mud and put it on the street in downtown NY and let people swoon over it.
 
At least the "brown paper bag" campaign actually shows the vehicle driving on a real trail? Haven't seen a rubi ad with one on dirt yet.
 
Maybe it's also time to be realistic. Hard core wheeling means a high potential for body damage, or it isn't hard core wheeling. Who's going to take a $35k vehicle into that type of environment? What the hard core people do is take an old vehicle with a junk body and modify the guts of it to the hilt... both jeeps and yotas. Out of the box, neither the Rubi or the FJC would hold a candle to the real hard core vehicles that are built for a fraction of the price by garage mechanics.
 
People in the market for a new rubi or FJC are not hard core wheelers... period.

#389 of 541 Stupid ads indeed by fourx4ever

Dec 21, 2006 (9:27 am)

Replying to: steenh (Dec 21, 2006 6:16 am)
Steehn,
 
You are absolutely right. I have not seen the commander ads, but from what you say it sounds dumb. Jeep does have ads of the wrangler doing real off-road stuff but most of other ads for their other vehicles show something that is ether impossible or ridiculous! Not that I like any of the other Jeeps in their line-up today anyway.
 
The FJC ads just push the bounds of what most people could ever do with that vehicle - kind of like if Kawasaki had a dirt bike ad that showed the bike being jumped 30 feet in the air and performing a double back flip. Yes, a trick rider could do this with THAT bike, but could you and I? Hmmm well perhaps with a lot of practice and some broken bones. The FJC COULD negotiate a difficult trail with a very experienced driver and a lot of spotters. Jeep had promoted the Rubicon as capable for the average person to do fairly serious off-roading out of the box.
 
About the hard core stuff with a new vehicle. I totally have to disagree with you dude. Just look in Fourwheeler, 4x4 and Off-road, or JP magazine. There are scores of people that bought and buy Rubicons and hit the hard core stuff from brand new. Lots and lots.

#390 of 541 Re: Stupid ads indeed [fourx4ever] by steenh

Dec 21, 2006 (9:52 am)

Replying to: fourx4ever (Dec 21, 2006 9:27 am)
"About the hard core stuff with a new vehicle. I totally have to disagree with you dude. Just look in Fourwheeler, 4x4 and Off-road, or JP magazine. There are scores of people that bought and buy Rubicons and hit the hard core stuff from brand new. Lots and lots."
 
Why would they? I could buy a $2k vehicle, put maybe $8k into it and blow a stock rubi away on the trails, and not care if I hit a rock or a tree? Quite a waste of money... and if they don't suffer body damage, they aren't wheeling hard enough. Guess if you have money to burn... but not many buying rubi's or FJC's have money to burn.

Messages Page 39 of 54

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