Last post on Nov 28, 2007 at 11:44 AM
You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
What is this discussion about?
Honda Ridgeline, Nissan Frontier, Toyota Tacoma, Chevrolet Colorado, GMC Canyon, Dodge Dakota, Ford Explorer Sport Trac, Car Comparisons, Truck
#380 of 751 Re: My final comparison [danielacosta]
Apr 01, 2006 (5:03 pm)
The Frontier should feel "stronger:"
Frontier w/4.0 V6:
173 lb. ft. torque 4400rpm
vehicle weight 3675 lbs.
Dakota w/4.7 V8:
240 lb. ft. torque 4000rpm
vehicle weight 4261 lbs.
The standard 4.7 V8 in the Dakota makes more torque and slightly more horsepower at lower rpms. While a dealer test drive will undoubtedly produce a greater sensation of acceleration and speed in the Frontier, at load or towing the torque limitations of the otherwise excellent little Nissan motor will be much more clearly evident.
This was the point in my earlier post. Dodge has concentrated on satisfying the mid-size market segment with a truck that will be used more frequently for work. I'm aware (and I'm sure Dodge is, too) that this often works against them when the Dakota is compared to smaller trucks or crossover vehicles like the Ridgeline. Dodge is answering a market demand for actual commercial work trucks.
With the exception of the Ridgeline and SportTrack, in my opinion this attempt at comparison of each of the aforementioned vehicles is an apples and oranges conversation. None of the other vehicles under discussion can do what the Dakota can do, and likewise the Dakota cannot give you what some of the others can provide. By size alone the Dakota outclasses the Frontier and the Tacoma. The Ridgeline and SportTrack cannot do what the Frontier, Tacoma, or the Dakota can do.
By the way, for 2006 Dodge does have a high output 4.7 rated at 260 horsepower. Unfortunately, it requires higher octane fuel.
#381 of 751 Re: My final comparison [dustyk]
Apr 01, 2006 (6:31 pm)
You got yer' specs. wrong Dusty.
A Frontier with a V-6 is rated at 265 H.P. and 284 lbs.ft of torque at 4000 r.p.m.
The V-6 King Cab averages out to approx. 4300 lbs. curb weight.
And I agree, comparisons are fine and dandy, but, they can only go so far. All these trucks have their attributes, their pluses and minuses, and they are all decent trucks in their own way. The rest is subjective.
#382 of 751 Re: My final comparison [dustyk]
Apr 03, 2006 (4:28 am)
....especially since your preferred choice utilizes an engine family that's been the least reliable of the candidates under discussion.
Which engine group are you refering to, and what are your sources of information.
#384 of 751 personal comments
by kirstie_h HOST
Apr 04, 2006 (8:10 am)
Folks, let's avoid making personally-directed comments. With so many models under comparison here, it's unlikely that everyone's going to agree on which one is best, and not every preference is based on pure fact.
Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions
#385 of 751 Re: My final comparison [driver56]
Apr 05, 2006 (4:30 pm)
You're right and I stand corrected. I had referenced the Road & Track 2006 Truck Buyers Guide. It now looks like they were quoting the weight and engine specifications of the I-4 engine.
Of course, that only makes the Frontier even more powerful.
#386 of 751 Re: My final comparison [kipk]
Apr 05, 2006 (4:46 pm)
The source is me.
I was employed in the management of my company's fleet vehicles for a number of years. Begining in '99 we began purchasing F150s for our light pick ups, replacing our then current GM truck fleet. We phased in just under 100 by 2004 nationally. Currently we are down to 54 F150 nation wide.
Problems we have seen on the 4.6 Triton modular motor are:
*coil pack failures
*exhaust gasket failures leading to cylinder head or exhaust manifold replacement
*intake manifold cracks
*freeze plug failures
*head gasket leaks (coolant)
*spark plug spitting
*rear crankshaft oil seal failures
There are a collection of other problems, such as O2 and other sensor failures. These problems affected a certain population of vehicles, none of these problems affected all vehicles. But compared to our Chevys and Dodges the Triton motors have required a higher level of maintenance and or repair. In most other respects the pre-2005 F150s were pretty good vehicles. Our small purchase of six 2006s have revealed a drastic increase in total vehicle repair rates, unfortunately.
Our experience seems to match other fleet operators that I've talked to.
#387 of 751 Re: My final comparison [dustyk]
Apr 05, 2006 (5:09 pm)
#388 of 751 Re: My final comparison [dustyk]
Apr 06, 2006 (10:36 am)
That type of info is valuable. You got to view the "BIG" picture of a goodly number of vehicles, over a large area, over a long time period, driven by people that didn't pamper them.
How did the transmissions of the various vehicles hold up as the miles got high?
Did y'all have any Japanese vehicles in the fleet? If so, how did they do?
#389 of 751 Re: My final comparison [kipk]
Apr 07, 2006 (3:32 pm)
We've had and do have some Asian nameplate cars and minivans (no trucks) in our fleet, but the number is very small. These vehicles are used by our service force when they are singularly assigned territories at automobile manufacturing sites. For instance, our service reps that visit Honda in Marysville, Ohio, are assigned Honda vehicles. Since the numbers are very small our results would be statistically invalid.
We've had Asian truck samples given to us for evaluation from time-to-time. Last year, for instance, Nissan gave us a couple of Titans to use for six months.
Our experience with transmissions on various vehicles has varied over time. If you are inquiring specifically about trucks, it depends on the model and year. The 4LE60 used in smaller engined GM trucks have been the most unreliable. The 4LE80 used in the larger engined or heavier models is the most overrated transmission I can think of. Not as bad as the 4LE60, but nowhere near the reliability that many people claim it is, at least by our experience.
The 45REs in our Dodges would be next, however we have selected Dodge as our only 4x4 supplier and we typically use them for plowing and other heavier work. So this may not be a fair comparison. The 46RE found in later RAMs was better. Our '03 and up RAMs all have the 545RFE. We have not had one single issue with any of these transmissions.
The 4R70s behind the 4.6 motor used in the F150 have been very good. The 4R100s in F250s have not.
The one thing you didn't ask me about was long term body condition. I remember how Fords rusted prematurely and very badly years ago. Our F-series trucks since '99 have been exceptional in this regard. Our Dodges have been just as good. Our GMs, however, have not. We have had perforation on GMs as early as five years. Rocker panels, rear wheel well lips, lower cab corners, and floor pans are typical weak spots. This really affects resale value when we turn them over. (Factor in piston slap and you can take a bath on a GM LD pickup!) And we're having the same issues on our Venture fleet.
Hopefully our newer GMs are better.