Midsize Pickup Comparo - READ ONLY

751 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2007 at 11:44 AM

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What is this discussion about? Honda Ridgeline, Nissan Frontier, Toyota Tacoma, Chevrolet Colorado, GMC Canyon, Dodge Dakota, Ford Explorer Sport Trac, Car Comparisons, Truck

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#742 of 751 Re: Fuel prices and the new Diesels. [asa] by kipk Nov 26, 2007 (4:50 am)
Replying to: asa (Nov 25, 2007 7:27 am) I am also having trouble getting excited about diesels in midsize trucks or in cars. Spent some time over on the Jeep Liberty Diesel forum. They seem to be having real problems with the diesel engines not running well. One thought that comes to mind is that it is new and there are "Bugs" to work out. However, another thought dictates that "Bugs" should be worked out before the consumer takes over. I can understand how some problem might not rear it's ugly head until a few thousand miles are on the clock, but some of these problems seem to be there, right from the "git-go", and Jeep has no solutions as of this time. Mercedes has been building diesel trucks and cars successfully for a long time. As pointed out by another poster, the Sprinter is a fine example. They have also been building reliable diesel cars for many years. Diamler (SP) owns Chrysler and Mercedes. So why the problems with the Jeep Liberty? My understanding is that GM owns a big chunk of Isuzu. The flat nosed box trucks by Chevy appear to be built on the same assembly line as the Isuzus. Why not put that proven engine into a Colorado? That engine works fine in the box trucks and should do very well in a mid size pickup. Kip Replies to this message: moparbad (Nov 26, 2007 7:11 am) kipk (Nov 27, 2007 5:00 am)
#743 of 751 Re: Fuel prices and the new Diesels. [kipk] by moparbad Nov 26, 2007 (7:11 am)
Replying to: kipk (Nov 26, 2007 4:50 am) My understanding is that GM owns a big chunk of Isuzu. Not anymore. GM sold it's stake in the past in order to raise cash. Toyota purchased a significant portion of Isuzu. Replies to this message: kipk (Nov 27, 2007 5:00 am)
#744 of 751 Re: Fuel prices and the new Diesels. [moparbad] by asa Nov 26, 2007 (1:06 pm)
Replying to: moparbad (Nov 25, 2007 8:18 pm) The Nissan Navara (aka the Frontier in North America) is offered with a diesel most everywhere else in the world and it too would be a time-tested, reliable engine if it ever comes to the North America. But, as you wrote about the other manufacturers, there seems to be no plans to make that happen at Nissan.
#745 of 751 Re: Fuel prices and the new Diesels. [moparbad] by kipk Nov 27, 2007 (5:00 am)
Replying to: moparbad (Nov 26, 2007 7:11 am) "Not anymore. GM sold it's stake in the past in order to raise cash. Toyota purchased a significant portion of Isuzu." Did GM sell all it's Isuzu holdings to "Toyota"? Wonder if GM hung on to anything that would be useful in the future. That diesel comes to mind. Kip
#746 of 751 Can GM compete? by kipk Nov 27, 2007 (5:48 am)
Reading about the new GM Duramax engine. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06/15/gm-announces-new-light-duty-4-5l-v-8-die- sel-for-north-america/ Here is a Direct Quote! "GM Powertrain's Tonawanda engine plant opened in 1938 and has produced nearly 68 million engines. The plant covers 3.1 million square feet and employs 1,565 hourly and 260 salaried employees, with an annual payroll of $200 million." Seems that payroll is an "Average" of $109,500 per person yearly. Of course the Executives will make more than the line workers, but that average seems excessive. "The GM Powertrain Tonawanda plant management and UAW Local 774 leadership successfully negotiated a competitive operating agreement that improves operational effectiveness". OK, that explains it! Kip
#747 of 751 Smaller Diesels by tigger32 Nov 27, 2007 (4:36 pm)
I want to thank all of you for your input. This subject has definitely stirred up some opinions. I am well aware of the Toyota and Nissan small trucks with their Diesel engines. These have been a staple of the third world for decades and have been great runners. Reliable and fuel efficient for what ever time frame you look at. Why they have not been shipped over here has been a mystery to me for decades. In a Yahoo group that I'm in there is one guy in Europe that tows his small trailer with a VW "New Beetle" diesel and it does a great job, according to him. I am getting closer to retirement and in a few years will be setting myself up to travel with a smallish truck and travel trailer to explore the US. If I were buying it today it would be the Nissan Frontier 4x4 (4.0 gas)and some kind of folding trailer like the Trail Manor. This combo will allow me to camp almost anywhere, places that would scare a motorhome to death. After setting up camp I could then go back country exploring with the truck. Let's see a motorhome do that! With a sub 3 litre diesel engine (like the MB 2.7 litre in the Sprinter van) the Nissan would be fantastic! Just my thoughts on the subject. Thanks for letting me vent and hopefully light a fire under any of the manufacturers that watch these lists. Nudge. Nudge. Come on folks, give us a cookie! Tigger32 Replies to this message: jfritsch (Nov 27, 2007 6:46 pm) moparbad (Nov 28, 2007 11:44 am) kipk (Nov 28, 2007 9:07 am)
#748 of 751 Re: Smaller Diesels [tigger32] by jfritsch Nov 27, 2007 (6:46 pm)
Replying to: tigger32 (Nov 27, 2007 4:36 pm) In general diesels in small trucks don't have the payoff of those in larger trucks, especially in this country. Cheap small diesels are good in europe and the far east for mileage and cost. By the time you load them up with emission controls in the US the options and benefits are limited. There is a lot of work here as the rest of the world is choking or starting to choke. If you pull off the converters, no abs, airbags etc and put in cheaper engines you can have real cheap models for other countries. (you've seen how cheap stripper models can get here) Good luck --jjf I want to thank all of you for your input. This subject has definitely stirred up some opinions. I am well aware of the Toyota and Nissan small trucks with their Diesel engines. These have been a staple of the third world for decades and have been great runners. Reliable and fuel efficient for what ever time frame you look at. Why they have not been shipped over here has been a mystery to me for decades. In a Yahoo group that I'm in there is one guy in Europe that tows his small trailer with a VW "New Beetle" diesel and it does a great job, according to him. I am getting closer to retirement and in a few years will be setting myself up to travel with a smallish truck and travel trailer to explore the US. If I were buying it today it would be the Nissan Frontier 4x4 (4.0 gas)and some kind of folding trailer like the Trail Manor. This combo will allow me to camp almost anywhere, places that would scare a motorhome to death. After setting up camp I could then go back country exploring with the truck. Let's see a motorhome do that! With a sub 3 litre diesel engine (like the MB 2.7 litre in the Sprinter van) the Nissan would be fantastic! Just my thoughts on the subject. Thanks for letting me vent and hopefully light a fire under any of the manufacturers that watch these lists. Nudge. Nudge. Come on folks, give us a cookie! Tigger32 Replies to this message: moparbad (Nov 28, 2007 11:44 am)
#749 of 751 Re: Smaller Diesels [tigger32] by kipk Nov 28, 2007 (9:07 am)
Replying to: tigger32 (Nov 27, 2007 4:36 pm) A friend uses his High Top Sprinter as a show/demo room for automotive brake re conditioning equipment. It is heavy! He says he gets in the mid 20s running close to 70. Adding a near 4K# race car/trailer will lower the mileage to just over 20 mpg. That says a lot about the little 2.7 diesel. It should do very well in a mid size Pickup or SUV. We are considering getting back into trailer camping! Did it for 10 years or so. I seriously considered a Trail Manor until my next door neighbor bought a (19/27) 2 year old used one. Very flimsy! Folding and unfolding involve a lot of latches, pulling and pushing, moving of furniture, removing the 2 storage cabinets from the walls, collapsing the bathroom walls, and lots of air leaks once up. There is virtually no storage. During the up/down procedure the inside is open to the elements as the top is being maneuvered. Would not want to do it in the rain or a heavy wind. The guy he bought it from, got a hard, fixed side camper. On the other hand, the "Hi-Lo" seems a lot more sturdy, better sealed and goes up/down with the push of a button or a hand crank. Stays dry inside as the top simply telescopes down over the bottom. Has decent storage and the inside doesn't need dismantling in order to close. We are also considering the Fiberglass "Eggs". Especially the 16 footer. Light weight, aerodynamic, decent storage and livability. Near perfect for me and the wife. Chatted with folks pulling them with all kinds of vehicles. Seems the Frontiers,Pathfinders, Tacomas and 4Runners are getting in the mid teens towing them. http://www.fiberglassrv.com/index.html Kip
#750 of 751 2008 Frontier review by moparbad Nov 28, 2007 (11:22 am)
2008 Frontier quote Truckin- All in all, the Frontier is easily one of the strongest contenders in the midsize class in my book. Though the Toyota Tacoma certainly has its fans, and is a formidable competitor in most respects, it lacks the eagerness and responsive, sporty edge that the Frontier has. Even with the Dodge Dakota offering an optional V8, and the Chevy Colorado about to, the 4.0L VQ engine provided more than adequate scoot for 95 percent of situations. However, with the introduction of the 5.6L Endurance V8 in the Pathfinder for 2008, it's no longer a matter of "if" the big thumper will fit in the Frontier, but rather "will they do it?" -end
#751 of 751 Re: Smaller Diesels [jfritsch] by moparbad Nov 28, 2007 (11:44 am)
Replying to: jfritsch (Nov 27, 2007 6:46 pm) Cheap small diesels are good in europe and the far east for mileage and cost. By the time you load them up with emission controls in the US the options and benefits are limited. There is a lot of work here as the rest of the world is choking or starting to choke. If you pull off the converters, no abs, airbags etc and put in cheaper engines you can have real cheap models for other countries. (you've seen how cheap stripper models can get here) Good luck --jjf Euro IV emissions and Euro NCAP safety. Mazda BT-50, Toyota Hi-Lux, Isuzu DMax, Nissan Navarra all meet Euro IV emissions with their turbo-diesels and meet NCAP safety requirements. Dual front airbags and ABS brakes are standard for most models with some trim levels having standard side and or curtain airbags. There may be stripper models somewhere, however, there is one main production base (Thailand) and even models exported to South Africa have same safety equipment and emissions as those models exported to Europe. EU has lower emissions level requirements for C02 and higher for NOx. With minor differences, these trucks are as safe and as clean as those being sold in US/Canada.