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Any Diesel Light Trucks on the Horizon?

71 messages,  Last post on Mar 15, 2008 at 8:42 AM

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What is this discussion about? Diesel, Truck

Messages Page 8 of 8

#62 of 71 TATA NEW DIESEL PICKUP by mark4biodiesel

Feb 21, 2008 (11:35 am)

The new diesel Zenon pickup to be sold by the Indian company, TATA, will be shown in March at the Bangkok Auto Show in Thailand. It is preproduction model and will only be offered in 2 wheel drive versions with the diesel first then later a CNG option.
   The engine is the smallest of all the small pickups offered in Thailand at only 2.2 liters but it has 140 horses. The performance is zero to 100 KPH ( 62 MPH ) in 15 seconds. All the other PU's in Thailand offer at least a 2.5 liter diesel which will give better torque.
  The truck will have at least 40 Thai suppliers of parts and the truck will be built there in a joint venture with Thai investors.
   The plant is designed to build 35,000 Zenon trucks per year with about 5,000 for local consumption and the rest for export to other Asian counties.
   Tata reps do not want to compete with high end models as they want to promote the utility of the lower priced models. If you have been to Bangkok, you will know how many high end Chev Colorado/isuzu D-Max PU'S are sold loaded with all the toys. In fact, most of the twins have the 3 liter 4 cylinder diesel rather than the 2.5 liter Isuzu version. They do not offer the Chev/Isuzu twins in 4WD with the smaller 2.5 liter.
  As i have mentioned before in these blogs, try rowing a gearbox in Bangkok with 12 million people. I mean, how can you talk on the cell phone and row gears at the same time? Talk time in Thailand on the cell is 1 1/2 cents per minute for outgoing calls and free for incoming calls.
  Even thou they call this Tata Zenon a one ton truck, like the twins, we all know the Colorado is not a one truck payload truck. Over there, in Asia, the max payload is 1,500 pounds in these small pickups but they still cheat by calling it a 1 ton.
   To compete with the Chev/Isuzu twins, the best selling pickups in Asia, it will have to sell around $14,500 U.S. maximum. If exported to the latin american market, expect to add about $1,500 to that price with a stick trans. Air con is standard equipment on Thai built trucks.

#63 of 71 Re: PROPANE IS BETTER [gagrice] by mark4biodiesel

Mar 01, 2008 (12:30 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Feb 05, 2008 6:36 pm)
As i mention in most of my comments, contact a national propane distributor and get a huge discount on propane when you use the credit card they send you. The larger the fleet, the bigger the discount but the Fed EIA report this week showed propane ( LPG ) as over 90 cents per gallon cheaper than gasoline. Yes, i know many places overcharge but follow my instructions and you will save thousands a year. Now for CNG, again, if someone reads many of my different comments, they will know that CNG gets about 2/3 of the fuel mileage of LPG and that is why it simply doesn't work. If you own a fleet of trucks that travel the exact same route every week and do not travel more than 300 miles a day,( with triple tanks ) then you could make due with your own CNG station at your shop but to buy it on the open road, it is hard to find and gets expensive.
  The reason propane works so well is that it has 18% hydrogen and burns 4 times faster than diesel fuel and twice as fast as gasoline.
  LPG is has a wholesale price of only $1.39 per gallon as of Wednesday this week so you should pay attention when i tell you how to save money. You are being ripped off if you are paying anything over $2.60 a gallon as the Fed EIA site shows the average pump price this week in that range. Lots of LPG is sourced offshore of California so there is robbery going on in your hood so call 911.
   Again, in all my comments on different blogs, i suggest if you want a small vehicle, order the biggest optional engine to operate on LPG. EG: Ford Ranger or twin Mazda small pickup truck where the base engine is a 2.3 liter 4 cylinder but the first optional engine is a 3 liter V6 which will give much longer life and have a lower rear axle ratio than the 4 banger. The biggest V6 in the Ford Ranger PU is a 4 liter V6 but i think it also has a 5 speed automatic which means the engine will rev even lower on the highway than the other small trucks with only a 4 speed auto. In the long run, never order a 4 cylinder engine if you want to keep the car/truck a long time and use propane.
    The V6 will not be over stressed unless you overload it and the engine should last 500,000 miles to 900,000 miles as long as you run decent oil ( not 5w30 ) In the hot weather run the best oil you can as LPG burns hot so a diesel quality oil of 15w40 is perfect and if you can spend the money and add one or 2 quarts of synthetiic, it will save on fuel and run even better and last longer. I only ran synthetic oil for the past 40 years so i never had the problems of over heating or consuming too much oil.
  Any car or truck will get better fuel mileage if you use full 100% synthetic and will help the engine last much longer and run cooler which helps double transmission life.
   As for diesel fumes, they are carcinogenic which causes cancer. In hot weather when stopped on traffic, some diesel fumes will come in the truck even with the windows up and the air on. There is no problem with fumes when running LPG as the exhaust is much hotter and tends to rise up from the tailpipe, even in a light tailwind. Why use propane when you can use a hybrid or electric car:??: because they are about $10,000 cheaper as witness the well over $35,000 price for the Chev Volt and you never get battery acid spilled all over your body cuts in a serious car accident when running LPG. Ouch.
   All the new GM V6 and V8 gas engines in the past 2 years have added a second knock sensor so the computer will give even better control therefore better fuel mileage with propane than before.
   As to any comments about any engine without knock sensors, you are going back over 10 years ago. That is why the LPG port fuel injection system finally got developed, for MODERN engines, not ones built 10 to 15 years ago. The computers on the engines today operate about 3 times faster than those used on the same brand as 10 years ago offering even better fuel mileage and power when using propane. The 4.3 liter V6 used as standard on the 1/2 ton Chev/GMC pickup had a second knock sensor added for the start of the 2006 model year.
   The 6 liter used in the 1 ton pickups, small Chev/GMC/Isuzu tilt cabs and 3500 and 4500 series cubevans now ( for 2007 ) has a cam phaser which advances or retards the camshaft to increase torque even more. It uses oil pressure to adjust the cam.
   All the above means that an identical V8 Chev truck with a big V8 running on LPG with LPG port fuel injection, will get about 35 percent better fuel mileage now than 10 years ago with a propane carb.
   Again, if anyone wants a contact for a deep discount LPG fuel card ( national brand ), the admins have asked that i do not post that info in my blog so you would have to ask me via email then it is ok with the web operators.
     Again, i have driven on LPG for over 1.6 million miles in commercial cars and trucks. I am lso a havy ruck drive and i hae tat i always get diesel fuel on my hands when euelin even when i use paper towels to grab e nozzle and pump.
Spend an extra $150 to $200 to have the biggest LPG tank installed at conversion time and you will thank me forever. That is another reason i say to order a slightly bigger car because of the weight of a fully loaded propane tank, add air control shocks ( load leveler type with air valve $75 to $100 ) to the rear and it will sit nice and level and add control when going around corners too fast.

#64 of 71 Re: PROPANE IS BETTER [mark4biodiesel] by gagrice

Mar 01, 2008 (5:11 pm)

Replying to: mark4biodiesel (Mar 01, 2008 12:30 am)
LPG is has a wholesale price of only $1.39 per gallon as of Wednesday this week so you should pay attention when i tell you how to save money. You are being ripped off if you are paying anything over $2.60 a gallon as the Fed EIA site shows the average pump price this week in that range. Lots of LPG is sourced offshore of California so there is robbery going on in your hood so call 911.
 
You do not have to convince me that Propane is a good fuel for vehicles. However we are getting gouged here in CA. I just filled again and the price is the same as it was in January $3.28 & 9/10 per gallon. I was talking to my neighbor who uses the other Propane delivery service. She just paid $3.90 per gallon. I went to the local gas station and filled two new tanks for the BBQ. Right at $40 for the two. So it is not practical for me to think about converting any of my vehicles.

#65 of 71 Re: PROPANE IS BETTER [gagrice] by mark4biodiesel

Mar 05, 2008 (4:03 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Mar 01, 2008 5:11 pm)
GAGRICE, as i mentioned, the admins to this chat have asked that i do not promote any company with the chatroom. After all, they charge money for ads to appear on this site which is fine with me.
  For you, send me your email with this header so i will remember what it is about "RE LPG CREDIT CARD".
 Make sure you put that as the title in the email and then i will not forget. Send me your full name, day and/or nighttime phone numbers and the best time to call you and i will get back to you. Let me know if it is better to contact you on the weekends at home or work. Here is my email MARK4PROPANEYAHOO.COM.
   Also before you call, get the phone numbers and management addresses of your local taxi companies. Do not send the taxi dispatch numbers but the head office number and contact person and i will try to hook you up with them for a large purchase discount for LPG. The target price this week should be about $2.65 a gallon at the pump. Also, before you email me, contact a farmers co-op if there is one or more in your area as they all use LPG for various purposes around the farm such as heating the chicken coops and drying some crops. They also get huge LPG price discounts and it is no problem to join a farmers co-op even if you are not a farmer. Remember they get volume rebates and they would be very happy to sell you propane to help boost their volume levels. They also sell gasoline and diesel fuel so any small trucker may get a better price of that as well. That trucker may have his local membership recognized at other farmers co-ops around the country, i have never asked but it sounds possible.
   Bottom line peeps, diesel fuel hit $4.00 a gallon on March 4th in mid-state New York. Today ( Wednesday )the price on a barrel of oil jumped $4.50 a barrel to close to $105 a barrel, so it looks like a very expensive summer for everyone, regardless of the type of fuel you use.

#66 of 71 suggestion by mrsixpack

Mar 08, 2008 (5:16 pm)

Find yourself a old pickup, one thats to old for the states to worry about the smog test. Go to a junk yard (bigger cities have the best ones) and find yourself a good working diesel with all the parts ya need. Find a garage to put it all together in and your good to go ! BTW...get the old truck licenced before you start the work incase you need to get it inspected for the title !
 
If you live in California or one of the SOB states that require yearly strict inspections....your out of luck !

#67 of 71 Re: suggestion [mrsixpack] by mark4biodiesel

Mar 10, 2008 (9:15 am)

Replying to: mrsixpack (Mar 08, 2008 5:16 pm)
Sixpack, you have not used your calculator lately. Again, go back and read all my comments on this website, then you will have the big picture. With the propane price at the pump with a national propane fuel credit car, the tax deductions, the lower fuel taxes in each state for propane compared to diesel, gasoline or whatever fuel you use, the $9,000 lower cost of a gasoline engine plus state tax on the 9 grand and finance taxes on that now $10,000, compared to the diesel engine option in the same truck, propane wins hands down if you drive more than 15 to 18,000 miles per year.
   Let's not even talk about the ridiculous cost of a factory fuel filter and air filter and it is no contest. People need to do the math and when they do, they will go with propane. Again, if you live 30 miles away from the closest propane station, lets not be silly about this.
  Diesel fuel is tied to the price of oil and is OPEC controlled while propane is not. Propane DOES NOT NEED REFINING as it comes from the ground as is at 105 octane. It is separated out from butane and natural gas but all those fuels save huge on emissions from ground to final use because they are GOD'S fuels. Almost all of the propane used in the USA is western hemisphere sourced. Only 10% of the LPG comes from one country overseas as they have supported the USA for 15 years against terrorists in that region long before 911 hit.
  Use diesel and you are supporting OPEC and countries that hate USA, Canada, Britain and other civilized countries. Stop supporting those idiots who hate you and freedom. Use diesel and support Bin Laden and all his ilk. You want honesty, you just got it. This is 2008. Diesel fuel worked in 1988, but it does not work today even if 10% is local bio-diesel. I still love my first wife ( since gone ) but that was 20 years ago, so i MUST face reality.
  The best point about LPG is you can do all the work on your own car or truck if you can use a wrench.
  Again, propane has 18% hydrogen so it burns hot and very clean helping your engine to last longer than a diesel engine. I am a heavy truck driver too so i know of what i speak having owned 5 personal diesel cars & trucks over the years since the 1970's.
    As of last month, GW Bush signed legislation extending federal tax breaks to 2012 for propane, CNG and other alternate fuels. Count your pennies and the dollars will follow. REALITY PEOPLE, REALITY.

#68 of 71 u maybe right ! by mrsixpack

Mar 10, 2008 (5:12 pm)

You maybe correct, I never looked at all the money involved....I'll start doing that now. BTW....here the cost for propane is equal to or more the gas or diesel ! Propane was $3.32 last time I checked !
 
Guess I have to get more lernt on the subject !

#69 of 71 Re: suggestion [mrsixpack] by mark4biodiesel

Mar 14, 2008 (4:51 am)

Replying to: mrsixpack (Mar 08, 2008 5:16 pm)
RE CALIFORNIA AND OTHER STATE INSPECTIONS FOR VEHICLES CONVERTED TO PROPANE (LPG ).
This is not a problem as most of the latest propane systems meet Federal and California EPA standards. Propane burns so clean and so hot that there is no carbon buildup in the EGR valve or cat converters. Exhaust systems on cars/trucks that use propane last 3 times longer because, even for short trips, they run hot and burn off all the moisture that rusts out gasoline burning vehicles.
    So to do an annual inspection is not a problem in those states if your engine is not on the list. On the approved list are the following engines: The Chev 4,8 V8, 5.3 V8, 6 V8 and 8.1 liter engines and Ford 4.6 V8, 5.4 V8,and 6.8 liter V10. all have California approval for the best propane systems. There are others on the list as well which do not need inspections after LPG conversion.
  Some of the fleet of 30 cars we ran on LPG would go 200,000 miles on the original exhaust systems and only then was the tailpipe or one other part or the exhaust replaced. The whole system would last 300,000 miles before all the exhaust system had to be replaced. Some of the cat converters would last even longer as they were as clean as a whistle inside.
  Of course, these where commercial cars, V8 full size taxi cabs that worked 20 to 24 hours per day and the engines were always warm, even if shut off for 2 hours between night and day shifts. The engines didn't get stone cold until Sundays and sometimes not even then as we operated in Toronto, a city of close to 3 million and another million travelling through it every day during the week.
  The busiest airport in Canada and the financial capitol of Canada kept the city busy. Toronto is also the airport gateway to Cuba for many border state Americans wanting to travel there and other international cities on charters or sked flights.
   The airport taxi's and limos have used propane for about 22 years and 80% of limos use it and about 60% of the airport taxi's. Between the two, there are close to 550 cars operating from Toronto's airport. There are 6 propane locations operating 24/7/365 along the airport strip and another 10 downtown and about 60 in the greater Toronto area.
  Build it and they will come. As of today, March 14, 2008, diesel fuel costs 190 percent of the pump price of LPG in Toronto. Gasoline costs 176 percent of the price of propane, so it is clear, there is no contest.
   All any city needs is one taxi fleet of about 40 or 50 cars and then other 24/7 LPG stations will pop up at trucking and courier companies. Joint venture between cities and private business is the way to go in the downtown cores as the city can put up a great location that does bot have to be paid for. Just the cost of the propane tanks, pumps alongside a couple of bio-diesel pumps will keep the place busy and benefit everyone with much cleaner air. Propane burns up to 87 percent cleaner than natural gas because it has such a high content of hydrogen. No contest there for the CNG lobby. sorry.
   Don't forget it costs $8 to $9,000 more for a diesel engine of a full size pickup or small cubevan. On a 5 ton truck or bus, the diesel engine costs an extra $12,000 or more plus taxes and finance charges over 48 months brings a Chev C5500 or C6500 5 ton truck to about $14,000 more. There is no logic to use diesel, none, in these type of cars or trucks.
   Let me be honest, in the USA, the pump price of diesel or gasoline over propane is about 1/3 more in March 2008. You can get serious fuel discounts of LPG that you can no longer get on gasoline or diesel fuel contracts for fleets. Look to save at least another 25 cents per USA gallon or more for a national propane credit card in the USA. Bigger fleets can save as much as 50 cents per gallon in the USA for propane. This is a very serious amount of money.

#70 of 71 Re: Any Diesel Light Trucks on the Horizon? [jkinzel] by mark4biodiesel

Mar 14, 2008 (5:03 am)

Replying to: jkinzel (Jan 20, 2006 2:12 pm)
The Ford Ranger and it's Mazda twin both use a 2.5 liter diesel in Asia. You can buy one for about $16,000 U.S. in Thailand. Next month it will be $16,500 and the month after $17,000 if the U.S. dollar keeps dropping. Forget diesel, it does not work anymore, so go with cleaner propane as it is not OPEC controlled or supplied. Get very significant tax deductions for converting your car, bus or truck to use propane and leave the gasoline system in place in case you run out of LPG.

#71 of 71 Re: Any Diesel Light Trucks on the Horizon? [mark4biodiesel] by gagrice

Mar 15, 2008 (8:42 am)

Replying to: mark4biodiesel (Mar 14, 2008 5:03 am)
If you look at this latest price for LPG you will see we are paying on the West Coast over $4 per gallon. The East still has the low priced LPG at about $2.60 per gallon. Bay area of CA is high at $4.36. It would have to get a lot better mileage than Unleaded to be worth the cost of conversion.
 
http://gasprices.mapquest.com/?cid=google&sem=1&ncid=MPQMAP00170000000028

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