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Future Vehicles Modern Muscle with Classic Names
175 messages, Last post on Nov 10, 2008 at 11:35 AM
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I think one of the reasons that the big 3 are going back to, if not the roots, then certainly older branches is that there is a history there. For the most part cars made in Asia did not really hit these shores until the 70's with any impact. They were small, more efficient and ran well, but style wise they left alot to be desired. I really do not want to see a retro B210. British culture seems to appreciate style that add's a classic touch, see Jaguar, Morgan, and the Mini (I know not all British, but every manufacturer is in bed with at least one other, no monogamy in autos  ) The main european manufacturers that sell cars in the US, primarily German and Sweden have given us evolutionary styling, and have not really evoked classic lines from the past. A sporty update of the old P1800 would be kinda neat. Americans are a people who look forward to the future but are particularly mindful of the past. Due to our particular lifestyle, the automobile has played a large part in our lives. For a lot of us it was our first bedroom  , it brought us to the birth of our children, to our proms, weddings, funerals. The car is almost a family member of its own. Retro will always work for that reason. There is an emotional tug, when you see these cars. The family had the good fortune of owning a 65 e type. Bad condition and all, we sold it during restoration, we were able to drive it a few times before really taking it apart. When I saw the new XK8 for the first time, my eyes kind of unfocused and I was back in the garage with my father, using old tools and muscle power to carefully remove parts from an old jag. I swear I could still smell the leather, the oil... It was fantastic. That is the emotional response I think a retro car envisions. The new crop of Asian cars do not have that connection to long ago. I had an old RX-7 with the alpha engine, when the RX 8 came out, I thought it was a good design with some bold directions. It did not take me back though to the old RX. |
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Replying to: toddbinfla (Feb 21, 2006 6:47 am) As for low tech performance cars, my GTO was just slightly under $30k. A bargain. |
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Replying to: socala4 (Feb 21, 2006 8:01 am) I have kids, strollers etc and bought the GTO as my 2nd car. The backseat is just as roomy as a 4 door Grand Prix or Accord etc. Just the pain of getting in and out. We get all of our stuff to fit, You have to pack smart. Many people think because they have 1 or 2 kids that they have to run out and buy a minivan or SUV. Not always. |
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Replying to: carlots101 (Feb 21, 2006 11:32 am) |
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had a '67 GTO. Beautiful car, IMO. He sold it for $500 before I was old enough to remember the car, but I've seen pictures of it. I always thought the GTOs hit their peak, style-wise, in '66-67. |
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Replying to: carlots101 (Feb 21, 2006 11:32 am) It worked for you, but for some others, it won't (or at least they believe that it won't, which is all that counts.) The point is that it would be beneficial to Ford to have a performance car that helps customers to get interested in their other cars. If the Mustang is a one-trick pony that does nothing to move customers to look at other Ford cars, then that would be to the detriment of Ford.
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Replying to: socala4 (Feb 21, 2006 11:43 am) The point of the retro is to get some blood flowing in the potential consumer, or ride the coattails of a trend started by someone else. I see a lot of families driving small 2 door civics, accords, corollas and Scions, not because its a great choice, but likely because its a cost issue. If we are discussing Muscle cars, or image cars with retro styling, the issues of utility are secondary. The prime focus is attacting attention. If you see an old GT-350 rolling down the road, you stare, you glance, but it gets your attention. For people interested in image cars thats what they want. Why else would the average person throw down 50k for an H2. Most of the ones I see on the road are single drivers commuting. Other than, say an H1 or 85 Suburban I cannot think of a vehicle that makes less sense for its use. But it pulls people into the dealership. If you have a good experience with that car you are likely to purchase another or something from within that family for your next one. Thats why so many people still buy from the big three, even though qualitatively they are a little behing the asian manufacturers. My mother in law owned an old chrysler something in the 70's. She and her husband had tranny problems. She will not even ride in a chrysler product now. (30 years!) She saw a 300 the other day in a parking lot and asked me what it was. I asked her if she liked it, she said yes. Then I told her it was a Chrysler and she said, oh no then I don't like it. She has had great experiences with Buicks, thats all she will drive. The point is if a retro mustang, or charger, or camaro gets you into a ford, chrysler or GM, and you have a good experience you will be more likely to give them a shot the second time around. With most of these retro vehicles the smile factor is higher. Would I buy a mustang now because it resembled some that I owned in the past. Absolutely.
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Replying to: toddbinfla (Feb 21, 2006 12:04 pm) My message here is that part of the purpose for a car such as a Mustang is to get non-Mustang buyers into Ford showrooms -- people who would never actually buy a Mustang, but for whom the car resonates greatly enough that the s/he would be more inclined to take his or her needs for a sedan, econobox, etc. into a Ford showroom than they otherwise would. The car should be there to create buzz even among people who wouldn't dream of getting one, for whatever reason (but likely because they would not view it as a practical purchase). You want the magic of the car to rub off on everyone looking at Ford products, not just the would-be Mustang buyers. |
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Replying to: socala4 (Feb 21, 2006 1:27 pm) I hear ya. My thought though is that for retro to work well, and for it to affect an entire product line, you would need those touches on an entire product line, don't you think? I just think the design of almost all fords except the mustang and the GT, do not intantly evoke a connection to the past. I agree, I do not think that someone seeing a mustang drive by is going to say, wow I think I need to by a fusion because that mustangs fantastic. I agree with your point. But as far as nitch, retro vehicles go, I think there will always be a place for them. Chrysler could market a good set of cars with fondly remembered cars like the Barracude, GTX, Superbird, Demon. Ford really only had the Mustang that made people swoon, nobody really wants a torino. By the virtue of size, GM has Chevelles, Camaro's Firebirds, Nova's, Le Mans (although thats you lowpo GTO). Another retro themed vehicle that could make a splash would be a ram derived powerwagon. With the right stylist a retro powerwagon would sell well to the mopar truck set. |
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For me GM missed the boat with the GTO, the holden is a fine car that provides an excellent driving experience. It just do not evoke the spirit of the GTO. I think a more angular body design, as well as the Z06 engine would make a fine GTO. Any engineers out there who could comment on using the vette underpinnings for a 2 door coupe? To keep the standard bearer up you could down rate the engine 25 or 30 hp. This way the Z06 would still be performance king, but the new GTO would be an explosive car. You would not need to load it up with all the electronic nonsense found in cars these days. Tooling would be the main issue I think. Also one of the most important features was that true muscle cars were not that much more money than the more pedestrian breatheren on the assembly line. Mr. shiftright has a good post going about collector cars and makes several good points that should apply today. When I bought my 73 mustang, the original owners still had the window sticker in the glove box. It cost about $3400 new and I paid $3600 in 1985. In 73 3,400 was not cheap, but it certainly was not breaking the bank either. Today, the equivelant car would be somewhere in the low 20's. I do not see a retro vehicle with good performance being made at that price point. You would have to make to many, and then it just becomes another civic type vehicle. |
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