MPG Ratings Will Drop Under EPA Proposal

375 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2008 at 9:08 PM

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What is this discussion about? Fuel Efficiency (MPG)

See this Edmunds.com article! EPA Overhauls Fuel Economy Estimates for 2008 - As the 2008 model-year cars hit the lot, shoppers will notice a big difference — the EPA has changed its fuel economy testing methods to produce mileage estimates that reflect "real world" driving habits. - (more)

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#41 of 375 Re: so [jlawrence01] by carlisimo Jan 19, 2006 (9:40 pm)
Replying to: jlawrence01 (Jan 19, 2006 8:23 pm) I wouldn't pay the extra money for a hybrid either. What I was saying though, was that sure, the best Civic EX might come close to the worst Civic Hybrid in mileage. But the worst Civic Hybrid will be a lot better than the worst Civic EX. The average Civic Hybrid will still be 20-30% better than the average Civic EX. As for the Colt... glad he liked it; I wasn't expecting to hear that. I've been rather frustrated with my own $300 car, and now realize the worthwhileness (to me) of refinement and ergonomics.
#42 of 375 . by sls002 Jan 20, 2006 (7:40 am)
A car that gets 20 MPG will use 5000 gallons of fuel to go 100,000 miles. A car that gets 40 MPG will use half that amount. A savings of 2500 gallons. At $3 per gallon, that is $7500 dollars. Or $15,000 over 200,000 miles. Trading an expensive car (say $30,000) in that probably is worth half that for something to get better fuel economy will not really save much in the long run. Replies to this message: nippononly (Jan 20, 2006 8:22 am) sls002 (Jan 20, 2006 8:35 am)
#43 of 375 Re: . [sls002] by nippononly Jan 20, 2006 (8:22 am)
Replying to: sls002 (Jan 20, 2006 7:40 am) But in that same scenario, buying the 40 mpg car as a second car may well save you most of the purchase price of the car, if you drive a lot. That was my situation with my truck, and the little Echo I just bought to run off all the local miles. The truck became an occasional driver, mostly for weekend trips to the beach and up to the mountains. The Echo is rated something like 34/42, and I am getting about 39 mpg so far in exclusively local driving. The new version of this car, the Yaris, will be available in about three months. Its EPA rating has actually dropped slightly, to 34/40. It has the same engine as my car but has put on some weight. I wonder what its rating will be under the new system when the '08s arrive. I imagine it will be around a combined 33 or 34. Once they get done re-rating the whole fleet, American cars are going to look like a group of SERIOUS gas guzzlers. Replies to this message: sls002 (Jan 20, 2006 8:35 am)
#44 of 375 Re: . [nippononly] by sls002 Jan 20, 2006 (8:35 am)
Replying to: nippononly (Jan 20, 2006 8:22 am) If you were going to buy the second can anyway, then one with better fuel economy is a good plan. My point was that dumping a perfectly good vehicle with lots of useful miles left in it, just to get something with better fuel economy will not save you much. However, if you have other reasons to get something different, then you must balance the fuel consumption with other factors to make the best choice. While I would like a station wagon for example, and while something like the SRX or Suburban is like a station wagon, the SRX is a bit of a fuel hog, although better than the Suburban. A VW diesel wagon is probably the best choice.
#45 of 375 in recent times by nippononly Jan 20, 2006 (11:18 am)
Chevy and Toyota have gone head to head in advertising of the number of models they have that make at least 30 mpg (I believe they are tied at nine apiece, or were when those ads were running a few months ago). I am guessing that after the new EPA ratings go into effect, Toyota's number will drop to about three (Yaris, Corolla, Prius?), and Chevy may not have any at all! Possibly the Aveo will still make the cut, my guess is that would be about it. But what a hit it will be for both companies' advertising, eh?!
#46 of 375 Don't know nippon. by boaz47 Jan 20, 2006 (4:01 pm)
My old Saturn SL2 always got 30 mpg or better in or out of town. My SC1 would beat that all the time. But to tell the truth anything close to 25 MPG is about all I expect. And after selling my old Ramcharger I am getting great mileage at anything over 20. I would give up the room in the focus or the PT for 5 MPG and maybe not 10. But lets take a look at the real world. I know you were pulling for a Hatchback a few months ago, and out came the Honda SI. It had lower HP than the other little hot boxes so it fell flat on its face. I am sure it got better mileage but no one seemed to care. Now the new SI is out and seems to be selling better with more ponies. People don't seem to care.
#47 of 375 Don't know nippon. by boaz47 Jan 20, 2006 (4:01 pm)
My old Saturn SL2 always got 30 mpg or better in or out of town. My SC1 would beat that all the time. But to tell the truth anything close to 25 MPG is about all I expect. And after selling my old Ramcharger I am getting great mileage at anything over 20. I would give up the room in the focus or the PT for 5 MPG and maybe not 10. But lets take a look at the real world. I know you were pulling for a Hatchback a few months ago, and out came the Honda SI. It had lower HP than the other little hot boxes so it fell flat on its face. I am sure it got better mileage but no one seemed to care. Now the new SI is out and seems to be selling better with more ponies. People don't seem to care.
#48 of 375 boaz by nippononly Jan 22, 2006 (8:21 pm)
do you think more people will care when gas gets back to summer prices, even God forbid $3/gallon again? Oil just spiked Friday within a few cents of $70/barrel. Those prices will be back. But maybe people still won't care, I dunno. I was half joking with my previous remarks, by the way. Chevy and Toyota won't care - Chevy will go back to pushing horsepower in its ads, what with all the SS models hitting the streets this summer, and Toyota will go back to pushing hybrids. Replies to this message: sls002 (Jan 23, 2006 9:20 am) 210delray (Jan 23, 2006 9:34 am)
#49 of 375 Re: boaz [nippononly] by sls002 Jan 23, 2006 (9:20 am)
Replying to: nippononly (Jan 22, 2006 8:21 pm) I think oil will remain at fairly high prices for some time yet. What the longer term outlook is remains to be seen. Regarding the proposed changes in measuring MPG: The EPA clearly expects the ratings to fall. What is not clear to me is whether they still plan to adjust the ratings under the new method like they do now, or if the new measurements are supposed to be accurate enough to stand on their own. The do seem to be proposing to have an expected range that a typical driver might expect for each vehicle. Cars with a 30 highway rating now may drop to 26, but the range may be 21 to 31. (see EPA's example) Replies to this message: 210delray (Jan 23, 2006 9:34 am)
#50 of 375 Re: boaz [sls002] by 210delray Jan 23, 2006 (9:34 am)
Replying to: sls002 (Jan 23, 2006 9:20 am) I think it's pretty clear that the new ratings will stand on their own. This time, they won't apply a mathematical "correction" factor, which was simply a band-aid acknowledging their current method gave too optimistic values.