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Automotive News & Views MPG Ratings Will Drop Under EPA Proposal
375 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2008 at 9:08 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
See this Edmunds.com article! EPA Overhauls Fuel Economy Estimates for 2008 - As the 2008 model-year cars hit the lot, shoppers will notice a big difference — the EPA has changed its fuel economy testing methods to produce mileage estimates that reflect "real world" driving habits. - (more)
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 25, 2008 11:55 am) But the whole tax credit thing is not really EPA's screw-up, it is Congress's in misunderstanding what those little numbers EPA produces really mean. |
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 25, 2008 10:26 am) You are trying so hard to find an angle to argue, and what you fail to realize is that, on this point, I am not arguing with you. The net effect of the whole thing is that hybrids are favored. If it pains you too much too simply acknowledge that, I'm ok with that. If you would rather argue the merits of the rationale behind it all, we can get to that later.
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Replying to: mattandi (Sep 25, 2008 2:42 pm) The fact is, the hybrids did well on the old test because the battery ran a lot during the city portion of the test. That's all it was. It was just an accidental fortunate alignment of a flawed test and a new technology that was not on the road back when the test method was created. No one was harmed in the collision of these two factors. In fact, the air being cleaner and the amount of gasoline that has gone unsold are the two main results.
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 25, 2008 12:29 pm) i am sure you would be impressed by the gold plated exterior fixtures. that was #3 after the lincoln and vietnam memorials. i respect the first 2. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Sep 25, 2008 11:53 am) The credits have to be tied to some metric. The feds have a tendency to hang everything on efficiency standards and draw parallels to other issues. That's the basis of the current dispute between your state and the feds. Feds say increased efficiency alone is enough to achieve emissions goals. CA says the feds dismissively discount other approaches to reducing emissions. I'm not entirely convinced that reducing emissions was much of a motivation in crafting the tax credit system, but rather it is just a nice bonus. I would guess the feds saw city MPG as the area that provided the most potential for improvement, so that's what they focused on. In doing so, hybrids end up benefiting more than other technologies. |
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 25, 2008 2:50 pm) Maybe you can explain why the Prius is still given a 66.6 MPG rating for the 2008 Prius. Those numbers should reflect the new supposedly better tests? No difference from the 2004. You can check the datafiles all the way back to 1978. There is a difference for the VW TDI. So maybe they did in fact test them with the new test. They just used a formula for the Prius and who knows what other vehicles. Your mind is made up. There are folks here that are interested in getting to the truth about the EPA. What are we getting for the money spent? http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml |
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Replying to: gagrice (Sep 25, 2008 3:45 pm) Under the "normal" mpg headings (CITY MPG (GUIDE) HWY MPG (GUIDE)) on the same spreadsheet, the Prius still comes in at 48/45.
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Replying to: gagrice (Sep 25, 2008 3:45 pm) link to wiki: can you find an epa rating for this?
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Replying to: steve_ (Sep 25, 2008 4:40 pm) The letter states. "Under the Energy Policy and Conservation Act, EPA is required to determine the test methods and calculations for two major fuel economy programs": CAFE and consumer friendly fuel economy information posted on new vehicle labels. larsb likes to argue that the tax credits are fairly allocated. If that was the case the criteria would be based on combined mileage not city only. This program was for alternative fuels and hybrids. Yet it was tilted toward hybrids by using city mileage as the criteria.
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Replying to: explorerx4 (Sep 25, 2008 4:45 pm) Could not find it listed on the EPA site.
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