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Automotive News & Views MPG Ratings Will Drop Under EPA Proposal
375 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2008 at 9:08 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
See this Edmunds.com article! EPA Overhauls Fuel Economy Estimates for 2008 - As the 2008 model-year cars hit the lot, shoppers will notice a big difference — the EPA has changed its fuel economy testing methods to produce mileage estimates that reflect "real world" driving habits. - (more)
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 25, 2008 7:54 am) The tax system, via credits, does show a bias that favors hybrids. It provides an incentive to buy a fuel efficient car. The incentive is based on city figures, which is where hybrids shine. All other factors considered, a hybrid is going to show greater improvement in the city figure, thus making it eligible for a greater incentive.
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Replying to: mattandi (Sep 25, 2008 8:08 am) Yes it DID, in the old test. But it was COMPLETELY UNINTENTIONAL. The tax credit was based on city mileage because reducing pollution in the CITIES is what is most important in regard to air pollution. So that is where that logic comes from - they did not just randomly say "OK, City is better so we will use CITY as the basis of the tax credit." It just so happened that the old, more severely flawed EPA test was so unrealistic in regard to the way it tested (no cold engine, no air conditioner) REAL-WORLD conditions that the hybrids used a lot of battery during the city portion of the test and therefore had good numbers. Clean diesel sedans driven in the City will pollute in the CITY, which is a more important consideration because of the density of population. Therefore the city number is important in that type of car also. Makes perfect sense.
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 25, 2008 8:30 am)
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Replying to: mattandi (Sep 25, 2008 10:13 am) The credit was designed to urge people to buy hybrids to REDUCE POLLUTION. The biggest pollution issues are in the CITY. You do the math. It's not hard. My 9 year old daughter could find the connection.
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 25, 2008 10:26 am) I still have no idea how they come up with those figures. I do thank the poster for the spreadsheets provided. It lets me know that CAFE figures are as screwed up as the EPA ratings. A clear bias toward hybrids. Been that a long time.
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Replying to: mattandi (Sep 25, 2008 7:48 am) Not yet. I am leaning toward the X5 diesel when it arrives. Or I may still go for the ML320 CDI. I was hoping the tax credits would be on a par with hybrids. The idea was both cleaner and using less fuel. Why the EPA decided to use city rather than combined mileage is anyone's guess.
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Replying to: gagrice (Sep 25, 2008 11:49 am) The old EPA test was around LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG before the first hybrid. Thusly, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the test to inherently possess any hybrid bias. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Sep 25, 2008 11:49 am) Like I have said before - the only "evidence" you have regarding this is your own opinion. I have produced logical evidence to the contrary. Seems like this is a clear-cut case. If this were a court case, the judge would have thrown out the case and fined you for contempt for repeatedly saying the same thing over and over without any concrete information. |
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 25, 2008 11:55 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Sep 25, 2008 12:07 pm) Once again, your opinion, with no facts to back it up. At least in regard to the legitimacy of the EPA mileage test. The EPA has indeed broken the law, been sued, paid fines, etc. I have already explained with virtually perfect logic that there is NO WAY the EPA test could have possibly been biased toward hybrids since the test came first. Do you have some contradictory logic, or are you merely issuing your unfounded opinion? Again.
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